tail kink? is it an issue?

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so I'm pretty sure poncho's tail has been like this ever since I bought her back in may. but it didn't occur to me that this could be a sign of something wrong until it was brought up to me. is it a sign of MBD? I mean, her UVB is correct, she gets calcium dusted on her food a few times a week. and since her tail was like this from the start I guess it was an issue with the pet shop / previous owner

 

[Taterbug]

I saw your thread (?) on tumblr too but it's easier to reply here, tumblr eats my reblogs. So this is a little long winded and addresses something not mentioned in this thread.

As many folk mentioned there could be any number of reasons for the kink. Calcium issues are usually to blame but it could be birth defect, poor posture in the egg or trauma. You could request x-rays from a vet to check her bone density and to see what sort of skeletal issues are going on with the tail. I imagine damage form trauma would image different than deformity from calcium deficiency (rickets). Regardless even if the husbandry problems are corrected many of the side effects including skeletal deformity of MDB are irreversible. That doesn't mean she is unhealthy - but something just can't be undamaged.

There are some strange beliefs about D3 out there. I've not heard about neurological problems... though I wouldn't doubt it! The efficacy of dietary D3 in high UV requiring lizards is questionable, and overdose (even subleathal) is a real thing. I've also not heard about it reducing the transport of calcium - actually the concern would be increasing the amount of calcium and it potentially being stored in soft tissue where it doesn't belong.

Personally, I don't use D3 supplements anymore. I don't feel comfortable with it and self synthesized D3 is regulated by the body. Instead I use high output T5 lighting. That said...Typically the D3 supplements are safe since the D3 content is quite low. There is lots of opinion and conjecture but not much science either way I'm afraid.

Your bulb will have the brand and model information printed on it. T8 (1") bulbs require changing at about 6 months. The uvguide.uk.co website is a great start to learning, but it's a little dates. The uvmeterowners group on yahoo! is the current haunt of Dr. Baines and they share reports on bulbs too - maybe you can find yours in there.

Another great option, though costly, is to purchase a radiometer (solarmeter 6.5) to measure the UV index produced by your bulb. This will show you the strength and also help you know when to change the bulb. Otherwise it is pure guesswork and the six months is a "safe window".

Amazon has good prices on reptisun and they package them well.

If your diet is balanced properly and your UV provision is good, I wouldn't worry too much. If it progresses or nags on you x-rays would help give some peace of mind. I hope some of that helps.

 

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thank you so much for the reply! I'm quite worried but I'm not sure we could afford a vet visit at the moment. I dust her bugs with calcium a few times a week, that's correct right? the D3 thing worries me now, I may just get the calcium without the D3...

I just found out we were using the old bulb so it's probably too old. I just switched to the new UVB bulb we bought and hasn't been used. I feel really bad but the good news is she was going outside every day and it was sunny so I hope that makes up for it...

I hope she won't get worse now that the issues have been corrected... like I said I'm pretty sure her tail was kinky like that when we got her

 

[AHBD]

Hi there....a kink in the tail will generally not affect the quality of life at all...I wouldn't worry about a vet visit specifically for that. If she has what she needs now and is healthy + active there should be no problem at all.

 

[Taterbug]

thank you so much for the reply! I'm quite worried but I'm not sure we could afford a vet visit at the moment. I dust her bugs with calcium a few times a week, that's correct right? the D3 thing worries me now, I may just get the calcium without the D3...

I just found out we were using the old bulb so it's probably too old. I just switched to the new UVB bulb we bought and hasn't been used. I feel really bad but the good news is she was going outside every day and it was sunny so I hope that makes up for it...

I hope she won't get worse now that the issues have been corrected... like I said I'm pretty sure her tail was kinky like that when we got her

If she was getting lots of sun exposure, especially mid-day clear sky when UV is at it's peak I wouldn't worry too much about the old UVB. Still it's great you changed it. What sort of light fixture do you use, and what bulb did you say you have?

If it doesn't progress and she doesn't show other symptoms I wouldn't worry too much. I wouldn't rush off to the vet for X-rays either, it's just something to keep in your back pocket. My vet charges about 180 for the exam plus imaging - no small expense for sure. :silent:

D3 in supplements is usually pretty low - and there are good arguments on both sides of the spectrum. I don't want to scare you over it, many many dragons and other reptiles do just fine with D3 in their supplements. It's worth reading up on to form your own understanding, but not worth loosing sleep over.

Depending on how many feeders you offer, and how well she eats greens will determine the best dusting routine. The goal is to have a diet balanced in calcium and phosphorus, 2:1. Dusting brings bugs up closer to 2:1 from dismal lows of like 0.14:1 in the case of crickets. "Staple" greens tend to be high in calcium - so the 3x per week dusting schedule probably works out fairly well for dragons who are good about eating greens. I dust most insects because Pepper is on and off about his food, and I generally mix in some other veggies that bring the ratio of the salad down.

 

[Stolzieren]

thank you so much for the reply! I'm quite worried but I'm not sure we could afford a vet visit at the moment. I dust her bugs with calcium a few times a week, that's correct right? the D3 thing worries me now, I may just get the calcium without the D3...

I just found out we were using the old bulb so it's probably too old. I just switched to the new UVB bulb we bought and hasn't been used. I feel really bad but the good news is she was going outside every day and it was sunny so I hope that makes up for it...

I hope she won't get worse now that the issues have been corrected... like I said I'm pretty sure her tail was kinky like that when we got her

If she was getting lots of sun exposure, especially mid-day clear sky when UV is at it's peak I wouldn't worry too much about the old UVB. Still it's great you changed it. What sort of light fixture do you use, and what bulb did you say you have?

If it doesn't progress and she doesn't show other symptoms I wouldn't worry too much. I wouldn't rush off to the vet for X-rays either, it's just something to keep in your back pocket. My vet charges about 180 for the exam plus imaging - no small expense for sure. :silent:

D3 in supplements is usually pretty low - and there are good arguments on both sides of the spectrum. I don't want to scare you over it, many many dragons and other reptiles do just fine with D3 in their supplements. It's worth reading up on to form your own understanding, but not worth loosing sleep over.

Depending on how many feeders you offer, and how well she eats greens will determine the best dusting routine. The goal is to have a diet balanced in calcium and phosphorus, 2:1. Dusting brings bugs up closer to 2:1 from dismal lows of like 0.14:1 in the case of crickets. "Staple" greens tend to be high in calcium - so the 3x per week dusting schedule probably works out fairly well for dragons who are good about eating greens. I dust most insects because Pepper is on and off about his food, and I generally mix in some other veggies that bring the ratio of the salad down.

she was def going outside at like noon to 2-3pm and having a good time running around out there. the light fixture looks like this: http://www.petdiscounters.com/assets/images/product_images/image/zoomed_deep_dome_lamp_fixture_a.jpg

phew, I was doing the dusting roaches 3 times a week anyways as I read other places that was good. she is a bit iffy about her greens. some days, she gobbles her collards up. other days she has no interest in them. but she's always good about eating her butternut squash, though I don't think that provides calcium, just some other vitamins.

 

[Taterbug]

Does the new bulb have it's labeling on it?

That bulb shape looks like it could be a mercury vapor bulb... but it could be just a halogen. Some of the reptile lights are labeled in a way to imply that they produce UVB and actually don't. The MVB bulbs cost close to $50-70 and the halogens closer to $10-15. I'm not sure how else to even guess if the label is worn off.

Winter squash (including butternut) has a calcium ratio around 1.5:1 - so it's considered an acceptable daily provision.

 

[Stolzieren]

Does the new bulb have it's labeling on it?

That bulb shape looks like it could be a mercury vapor bulb... but it could be just a halogen. Some of the reptile lights are labeled in a way to imply that they produce UVB and actually don't. The MVB bulbs cost close to $50-70 and the halogens closer to $10-15. I'm not sure how else to even guess if the label is worn off.

Winter squash (including butternut) has a calcium ratio around 1.5:1 - so it's considered an acceptable daily provision.

so I think the bulb is ZooMed Powersun UVB with mercury ble ble I forgot but it looks exactly like the box the bulb came in

ahh so the butternut does give her calcium?? excellent news! she loves her butternut squash so

 

[Taterbug]

Does the new bulb have it's labeling on it?

That bulb shape looks like it could be a mercury vapor bulb... but it could be just a halogen. Some of the reptile lights are labeled in a way to imply that they produce UVB and actually don't. The MVB bulbs cost close to $50-70 and the halogens closer to $10-15. I'm not sure how else to even guess if the label is worn off.

Winter squash (including butternut) has a calcium ratio around 1.5:1 - so it's considered an acceptable daily provision.

so I think the bulb is ZooMed Powersun UVB with mercury ble ble I forgot but it looks exactly like the box the bulb came in

ahh so the butternut does give her calcium?? excellent news! she loves her butternut squash so

That's good to hear about the bulb. Yep, winter squash is good, and even herbs like basil has good calcium ratios.