Swollen joints - gout? MBD? (Pictures and x-ray)

[Gryphex]

A couple weeks ago I noticed that one of Mica's arms was a little swollen, but I thought it was just her putting on a little weight. I don't know how I didn't think through that only one of her arms was swollen. I took her to the vet about two weeks ago to the only one that sees reptiles in the area, but he didn't do much. He held her and looked her over, and then said he'd seen similar symptoms in beardies with MBD. He recommended dusting everything she eats with calcium (so I'm dusting her kale too now in addition to her dubia roaches) and he said just to watch her and come back if things don't improve. No blood tests, no fecal tests, no nothing.

Here's a view from the front. It's her front left leg that I noticed swelling first.

Here's a better look at the left leg.

And here you can see how her elbow is swelling. You can see the skin between the scales now.

For comparison here's her right leg:

But on her right leg I just noticed today that she's got a lump on her wrist.

After searching around on this site I'm thinking it could be gout, but I'm not sure what to do now. She's a year old and I got her from PetCo when she was three months old. The vet said my setup was good. One concern I have is that in the past little while the weather has gotten really hot, to the point where temps on the hot end of her vivarium have reached about 115. :shock: I think I'm going to have to move her to another room. She doesn't seem dehydrated and she's fairly active. I bathe her about once a week (she doesn't like drinking water even when I put drops on her nose) and I gut-load her dubias with juicy veggies, so I think she's taking in a lot of moisture from them. She's got a great appetite and chases down the dubias when she's really hungry. Her joints don't seem to hurt or hinder her, but she doesn't care for me touching them. HELP.

 

[CooperDragon]

It's possibly gout. It's hard to tell for sure without running a blood test or extracting some fluid from the swollen area. Swelling like that can also occur during shed cycles to help loosen skin so I'd keep an eye out for signs of a shed as well. You could offer some dark cherry extract for now and see if that helps bring the swelling down. It can be useful for treating gout but isn't harmful otherwise. If she is diagnosed with gout, there are other meds available such as Allopurinol which can help manage gout. It's a good sign that she isn't showing any problems moving around.

I wouldn't bother dusting her salad with calcium. It doesn't look like she has MBD. What do you have in place for her UVB? I would just offer a wide variety of veges and include calcium rich greens such as collard greens and turnip greens. She should get the nutrients she needs with a balanced diet and proper UVB exposure.

 

[AHBD]

Hi there, how many roaches does she eat a day and do you feed them any protein ? As for hydrating her, offer the water 1-2X a week but don't just drip it for a few seconds. Try to drip, stop repeat and keep at it for at least a minute before you give up. Sometimes it takes a minute or so because they aren't used to the feel of water on their face as a form of hydration.

Offer veggies as Cooper mentioned and have them nice + wet when you give them to her. Skip a day of bugs to try to make her hungry enough for the veggies. Too much protein can cause gout so the extra hydration and veggies can help if that's what her problem is. You might want to get a test done to check her uric acid levels to confirm.

 

[Gryphex]

Thanks for the responses, guys. Her UVB is a coil bulb, but I'm starting to hear those aren't the best. It's from Zoo Med, ReptiSun. I'll look into that cherry extract and give it a try. Thanks for that pointer.

As for her food, she eats three or four large dubias a day, and every once in a while there's a superworm or two she's treated with. I try to offer her veggies every day, but I do need to make sure there's a variety. As for the water, I got my hands on a proper dropper and that worked really well with her. If things don't seem to improve in the next week or so, I'll call up the vet and see if he'll run some proper tests to see what's going on.

 

[CooperDragon]

Which wattage is the coil bulb? How far is it from her basking area?

 

[Gryphex]

I was mistaken on the brand. It's an Exo Terra coil bulb, UVB 150, 13 W. It's about a foot above the basking area.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Poor thing, it definitely appears that he is developing gout. You have a window of opportunity so
I highly recommend starting him on the Black cherry powder liquid to help his kidneys.
How much does he weigh? If he is less than 100 grams then it will be difficult to draw blood from him. They can do an x-ray to see if there are any tophi surrounding the joints that is causing the swelling.
I would decrease the protein a little bit to help. You can get some alfalfa meal for a good protein but doesn't have any purines.
He may need allopurinol though because that is the primary medication used for gout. Try to increase the oral fluids & the greens also.

Tracie

 

[CooperDragon]

The 13w certainly isn't powerful enough to be effective at that distance (or any safe distance for a bearded dragon). You'll need at least the 26w version of that bulb but that would still be too weak to be effective at 12''. The perfect bulb for that distance is the 22'' T5 UVB bulb. The ReptiSun 10.0 or the Arcadia 12% are the best ones out there. As it stands, she is not getting adequate UVB exposure which can lead to multiple health issues.

Try this fixture https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AKKUBDQ/ with this bulb https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-26061-Reptisun-Fluorescent/dp/B00AQU8HAO/ It should provide very good output at 12'' above the basking site.

 

[Gryphex]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. She was 220 grams when we were at the vet a month ago. I've purchased the bulb and fixture online, and until that gets here, I'll make sure she gets sunlight daily since my current bulb isn't doing enough.

 

[CooperDragon]

That sounds good. If the weather cooperates, time out in natural sunlight should do wonders if she is OK being outside with you for a bit.

 

[Gryphex]

When you guys say black cherry extract, do you mean like what would be used in baking? Or is this a juice in concentrate? I'm having trouble finding it. Could you attach a picture or link to what I should buy?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That's great you ordered a new light. I hope it gets there for you soon.
Here are a couple of links for black cherry & tart cherry, either one:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Black+cherry+juice

https://www.puritan.com/catalog/search?SearchText=Black%20cherry%20juice

Maybe you can get him outside also for some sunshine.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[Gryphex]

Okay, great. Should I give this to her as is, or should I water it down?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

You can give it to her straight, without watering it down. Give .5ml to 1ml, daily.
She should really like the flavor. How is she doing today?

Tracie

 

[Gryphex]

Behavior-wise she's normal. She doesn't act like anything's wrong at all and she doesn't seem uncomfortable. She hasn't been too keen on the greens since I've started offering new ones. She took two bites just now and then walked away from them.

I've gotten her to drink the black cherry extract both times I've given it to her, and I'll give her some today a little later on. I don't know that it's necessarily helping with the swelling, though. Her left arm doesn't seem like it's gotten bigger, which is good, but this morning I noticed that one of the fingers on her right hand has a knot in it now that wasn't there yesterday. I'll keep trying for now, but I think I might schedule another visit to the vet for this weekend. I'm hoping it goes better, because this clearly isn't MBD like he thought.

The bulb and fixture came today! Ever since I got them set up, she's been basking in the new, stronger light. She seems very content.