Swelling In Throat - Possibly Thyroid? *Update* Nnnnope!!!

[Kingsalmonattack]

I've had Ivy for five years now and she's been mostly fine health wise but recently I've been noticing her throat getting kind of swollen and saggy underneath.
She's not been shedding either despite my best efforts to induce it and is spending most of her time lying down flat on her heat rock or her log with a heat mat under it asleep during the day and only properly wakes up in the evening.
I don't think the growth is affecting her swallowing food but it's definitely affected her appetite as she barely has one most of the time. When she's occasionally hungry she can down a whole six uncut grapes or a few cherry tomatoes (she refuses to drink water unless I drip it from my fingers onto her mouth so I compensate with liquid-filled fruits and veg like cucumber, pear and defrosted peas) but most of the time she won't even touch her calci worms and leaves most of her food. Even stuff she usually loves and can't resist.
She's also getting a lot more irritable. She didn't have a problem with me touching her, but recently she's been showing me her beard a lot more and refusing to be handled or stroked. She won't even take food from my hand as readily anymore.

I took a photo from the side to try and show what her neck looks like:

I'm already planning on calling the vet tomorrow but I figured posting my experience with this would help considering most other threads I've seen don't really apply to her.
She's not brumating, isn't getting fatter and starts constantly leaving her mouth open if I put the temps up any higher. The cold end being consistently around 27C ATM. I can't provide the hot side's temp yet since the new analogue thermometer I got doesn't seem to be working properly but by touch test and memory of the old readings it seems accurate enough. Being around the late 30s to mid 40s depending on the weather and time of year. This being the warmer months.

This is something that has gradually been getting worse and worse for the past few weeks or so. So I reckon it's more relevant here than in general health. Thyroid and food issues was how one of our cats got put down so I really don't want to let it get that bad if it's the case. Despite my own health not being very good either at the moment which is why it's taken me to long to go back and get her a checkup like I planned months ago.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

It could possibly be thyroid, but also supplementation issues, too. What UVB light do you use & how old is it?
Has she ever laid infertile eggs before?
It sounds like she is not feeling well if she doesn't want to be handled or held much right now.
Does she turn her beard black right now?
What supplementation are you using for her?

Tracie

 

[Kingsalmonattack]

What UVB light do you use & how old is it?

I bought her two new UVB lights last month. I'll have to take a look at the boxes but I've used these ones before when she was a lot better.

Has she ever laid infertile eggs before?

She's only ever really laid a full clutch once in early 2012. For a while they'd slip out when she emptied her bowels and that was it. But now that's stopped, too. It's another reason why I'm going to the vet since I know that isn't normal. But she seemed pretty happy despite that. She wouldn't dig anymore, either. For the longest time I kept a large bowl full of sand with a hide on top in her tank (which worked the first time) and it was left unused.

It sounds like she is not feeling well if she doesn't want to be handled or held much right now.

She was never the most friendly of beardies but she at least used to like being handled more often and enjoyed being cuddled after a bath. Now she gets antsy even if I run my finger along her back.

Does she turn her beard black right now?

Her beard doesn't usually turn black at all. She does show me it but it's usually just her regular skin colour only slightly darker. I've only ever seen it black once and that was when she was scared by a car since she hadn't seen one before that wasn't on TV.

What supplementation are you using for her?

This is a tricky one. She flat out refuses to eat anything with dust on it (especially greens) so I've been trying to balance out her diet with variety and occasionally I give human vitamin supplements (liquid capsules and dampened pills) to her live food so that they eat it rather than get it over themselves. Most often calcium and vitamin D. Not multivitamins since those are formulated to human needs rather than reptile ones and I'd rather know how much of each I'm using so I don't poison her. I also give her pellets with her greens on the off chance that they'll stick to them when she eats them but then she just shakes them off.

The vet appointment is tomorrow and it couldn't come any sooner since I reckon the swelling just keeps getting bigger. I took another photo the other day to compare:

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

There is definitely some swelling going on.
I am thinking that it could be related to dietary or supplementation intake causing absorption issues.
When they don't take in calcium on a regular basis, it may cause an imbalance of calcium to phosphorus which could cause absorption issues. I have seen a few cases here on the forum similiar to that.
That would be a far better scenario than a cyst or tumor in the beard area.
When are you taking her in to see the vet?
Which UVB light are you using, what brand is it?
If her behavior of her egg laying has changed, then something could be going on. Perhaps she has retained some eggs at one point or she had an egg burst that has caused peritonitis but I hope that isn't the case.
Ivy is such a great name! I hope she starts feeling better soon.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

 

[AHBD]

Hi there....it's really important to list the brands of lights you have as Tracie mentioned.....if you don't have the boxes can you see if there's a name on the bulb ? There's definitely some swelling but she doesn't look too bad as far as swelling goes, just a bit of a sag [ some beardies have much worse + larger throats ] but her behavior is pointing to a possible problem. You mentioned that you give her human grade calcium pills with D3. How much of that did you give her at one time ?
There could be some problem from that so just be sure that you either get the kind made for reptiles. She may have gotten a near toxic amount of D3, so please be careful !

You say she drinks water dripped on her snout ? Your girl may be dehydrated. Keep offering it like that as often as she'll drink, use an eyedropper, syringe or spray bottle and let her drink her fill. Mine drink that way and when they lower their heads to catch the drops I put a small plastic lid under and they keep drinking off of that. I hope that Ivy will be feeling better soon !

 

[Kingsalmonattack]

I've just come back from the vets and it's very, very bad news. He felt her throat and there wasn't anything up with it, but he felt her belly and noticed a problem. She was sent for an x-ray and it appears to be that she has "Preovulatory Ovarian Stasis" where folicles develop in the ovaries but most don't migrate and become eggs. Instead becoming cysts. Her loss of appetite and general feeling unwell are because the fats from her not producing the eggs properly have built up in her bloodstream and are affecting her liver.
She has "Hepatic Lipidosis" and it will only get worse as long as her ovaries aren't removed to the point where she'll lose her appetite completely and starve herself to death. He said that the puffing up of her throat is a sign of her really not feeling well so it has progressed quite a bit.

I have to make the decision of whether to go for the operation (which she might not survive because of how bad her liver is already) or to just keep her comfortable until she just can't enjoy her life anymore and have her put to sleep. I'm really torn on the issue since I don't want to give up on her but considering she's a lot closer to her full life span I really don't know.
The vet said not to rush the decision but my parents are already putting pressure on me to let her go.

 

[AHBD]

Oh man, I'm so very sorry. What a difficult decision to make. Poor Ivy.....I know you're heart is broken about this. Is this something that you can afford to do ? I guess if your parents aren't for it then you may have to go with their decision, but if you can persuade them then maybe she has a chance if she was healthy before. I truly hope for the best outcome for you Ivy.

 

[Kingsalmonattack]

I think I've reached a decision that I'm going to go for the operation. 3 more years with her happy are better than 1 month watching her waste away to bones badly enough to be euthanised.

My parents tend to think I'd be putting her through worse suffering with the operation. But it's not like she has cancer or something that could come back after the op. Once her ovaries are gone they're gone and the chance of her liver getting any worse is greatly reduced. She's not vegetating in misery yet. Sure, there's always a chance that she could die on the table but I'd say the odds aren't overwhelming. And at least if she does go she'd be too out of it to know what's going on instead of going through the panic our old cat went through last year.

The only problem I have now is cost. I was recently dropped from ESA to JSA so I'm a lot less financially supported than I was last month (although I am appealing because there's a lot of evidence that the doctor accessing me lied on the forms, it will take too long for me to get back my usual or adjusted amount for it to be of any help right now). But I do have some things I could bite the bullet and sell to try and make up the money. I'd rather get this done sooner than later since the longer I leave it the less chance there'll be of her coming around from it and making a decent recovery.

 

[AHBD]

Once you think things through like that you can be happier with your decision. You can even entreat the vet to perhaps accept payments or a large sum up front. I know what you mean that if you can have her for a few more years it would be worth it. There are risks in any surgery, but you might ask your vet to be 100% honest about his opinion on what her prognosis after surgery would be.

 

[Kingsalmonattack]

The vet I saw today actually won't be in for the next week so he gave me a list of other practices to enquire with. They're a lot further away considering the place I go to is basically the only herp place in the city but at least i have some options based on price and region.

Ivy's tuckered out after being prodded, poked and scanned today so she's had an early night. I hope this doesn't go like what happened with our dog where after going to the vets and having something confirmed the animal takes a nose dive.

But thankfully my sister has offered to pay on my behalf and so Ivy can get the operation and I can pay my sis back when my (hopefully temporary) financial situation is fixed. I'm going to call round the list tomorrow.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Oh dear, what a bad situation for Ivy. It is somewhat common though & should be able to be fixed through removing the ovaries. Are they just going to go ahead & do a complete spaying too so she wont have anymore problems?
The liver though, can regenerate once it doesn't have so much stress put on it.
She could have more than 3 years left, too. That is wonderful your sister has offered to pay, that is very generous of her.
When are you thinking of the surgery?
I think since she isn't dire yet, her chances of coming through the surgery are excellent.

Keep us posted on her.
Tracie

 

[AHBD]

Oh good, I'm glad for you ! So nice that your Sis is coming to the rescue !

 

[Kingsalmonattack]

I've managed to book her an appointment for this week. Thursday afternoon we'll have a consultation and then she'll have the op first thing Friday morning. Thankfully the closest place is also the cheapest and quickest. Was worried I'd need to pack Ivy a lunch for the trip there. Lol.

 

[Kingsalmonattack]

Well, I took her today. Had a consultation with the new vet. She felt Ivy's belly and said she could feel a slightly harder mass around where her liver is and said it's possible it might be cancer instead of fatty liver.
A blood sample is being tested to see which it could be and the vet will have a visual of the liver when she opens Ivy up tomorrow. Trying to keep my spirits up and hope for the best but the costs are piling up and the operation and consultation were a lot more expensive than was said over the phone.
I'll get a call tomorrow about the results and what the next step would be but I can' t help but get a gut feeling that this just might be the end for my scaly little sister.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Oh no, I am sorry to hear that. Let's hope that it isn't cancer but just her liver is enlarged from the stress of the eggs. When do you think that the blood test results will be in, tomorrow?
I will be thinking about you & Ivy in hopes that it isn't as bad as what it is seeming to be. Poor girl, this is a difficult time I know.
Let us know how things go.

Tracie