superworms as a staple feeder, viggie tip needed

[sammyrgti]

hi everyone my names Sammy i have owned a bearded dragon now for 5 months got him as a baby and now his 12" a few people said his kinda big for his age which i don't see that as a bad thing but i could be wrong who knows he was 7.4" when i got him , anyway so for the first two months i had him he only eat crickets the 3rd month he stared eating dehydrated dubias with his crickets and a few weeks ago he started eating superwoms and kale and collard greens and now here's the deal he refuses crickets all together he would rather not eat at all, some people say its not good as a staple feeder but allot of other says its just fine, i have found supers make him full faster and he eats less, his happy and healthy i haven't seen any change in his behavior, except today and yesterday his in a grumpy shedding mood his 5th full body shed in 4 months i think that's great, anyway i have two questions,

1. how do i get him to eat more viggies? he only eats a few bites approx half a kale leaf and has to be hand fed.

2. has anyone heard of issues with supers as a staple feeder? i haven't heard or read of such problems just im a worry wort

heres a few pictures of him his name is Ezio and his a Hypo Het Translucent

thanks everyone

 

[Claudiusx]

He does look quite big for 5 months (and bigger than 12 inches at that) but some grow faster than others.

12 inches is way too small to be feeding superworms. Supers shouldn't even be introduced into the diet until the dragon is at least 16 inches in length.

How many superworms are you feeding him. They are very high and fat, no more than 5 or 6 should be fed a day. At 5 months, your dragon needs more protein than that, so you would need to treat the supers as more of a treat, and keep on with other feeders. Thats the other problem with superworms. They are very tasty, dragons get the taste for them and won't want to eat anything else. Especially if they know their beardie slave will give them more superworms if they go on a hunger strike against crickets.

Supers are a fine staple for an adult dragon who has finished growing, not for a dragon still needing high amounts of protein and insects.

As long as he is eating some greens, that is good. He is still young, so he is still wanting mainly bugs. Kale isn't the best green for a staple green. Here is a good site to look at: http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

Supers as a staple feeder in young dragons who need more protein and insects than adults leads to much too much fat in the diet, due to the large amount of superworms the dragon would have to eat to meet his/her protein requirements. This can lead to Fatty Liver Disease later in life.

-Brandon

 

[sammyrgti]

He does look quite big for 5 months (and bigger than 12 inches at that) but some grow faster than others.

12 inches is way too small to be feeding superworms. Supers shouldn't even be introduced into the diet until the dragon is at least 16 inches in length.

How many superworms are you feeding him. They are very high and fat, no more than 5 or 6 should be fed a day. At 5 months, your dragon needs more protein than that, so you would need to treat the supers as more of a treat, and keep on with other feeders. Thats the other problem with superworms. They are very tasty, dragons get the taste for them and won't want to eat anything else. Especially if they know their beardie slave will give them more superworms if they go on a hunger strike against crickets.

Supers are a fine staple for an adult dragon who has finished growing, not for a dragon still needing high amounts of protein and insects.

As long as he is eating some greens, that is good. He is still young, so he is still wanting mainly bugs. Kale isn't the best green for a staple green. Here is a good site to look at: http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

Supers as a staple feeder in young dragons who need more protein and insects than adults leads to much too much fat in the diet, due to the large amount of superworms the dragon would have to eat to meet his/her protein requirements. This can lead to Fatty Liver Disease later in life.

-Brandon

thanks for the reply, that's what im worried about them being to fat for him, cuz he loves them so much i measured him and he is 12" head to tail, but anyway he was eating from 15 -30 crickets a day before i started on supers, now he eats 10 supers a day sometimes 15 no more then that , the problem is crickets being so hard to take care of and keep alive and they cost so much comparing to supers, i failed massively at breeding crickets even when i tried buying 1000 crickets they all died within a month they went hanble lecter on each other even thou i did everything i was told to do, anyway kale is only a some time i give him mostly he like collard greens that's what he eats allot of,

anyway heres the big issue, how do i turn him back on to crickets without hurting him?

 

[Claudiusx]

Give him his 5 or 6 supers, and then offer crickets. If he doesn't eat the crickets, put them away and then try again in a few hours. If he doesn't eat any crickets for the day, then on well. He will eventually get hungry enough to eat the crickets, or... his salad. Lol.

You could try other worms like silkworms, butterworms, BSFL variants, and hornworms.

-Brandon

 

[sammyrgti]

Give him his 5 or 6 supers, and then offer crickets. If he doesn't eat the crickets, put them away and then try again in a few hours. If he doesn't eat any crickets for the day, then on well. He will eventually get hungry enough to eat the crickets, or... his salad. Lol.

You could try other worms like silkworms, butterworms, BSFL variants, and hornworms.

-Brandon

ok sounds good to me i gave him some waxworms he liked those too but i gave them as a treat

anyway i got a few hard days ahead of me im just a weakling to see him give me the im hungry look

ill get back to you in a few days

 

[Claudiusx]

Ok dont give in! :mrgreen:

Anyways, 5 superworms is more than enough to live on, so you don't need to be worried about actually hurting him.

-Brandon

 

[Sauzo]

What Claudiusx said. Also can try live dubias. I know Harley quit crickets all together once she tasted dubias so those might get yours off superworms. Also going a day without food is fine. To get Harley to eat greens more since she is a dubia fanatic(she will eat 45+ 1/2 inch dubias a day easy as a 4 month old 11 inch baby), I just cut her down to around 20 dubia a day for 2 days and now she loves collard greens and dandelion greens to the point where she eats them for breakfast and will munch on a couple pieces during the day as well but in return still expects her 45+ dubias a day :lol:. I will prolly never feed her superworms since there are so much other stuff like silkworms, horn worms, phoenix worms, dubias as well as all the veggies. Might do them as a treat though combined with butter worms and wax worms.

 

[sammyrgti]

okay so today i only gave him a hole leaf of collard greens and he eat the whole thing instead of refusing food so this is a good start

 

[Claudiusx]

:mrgreen:

-Brandon

 

[sammyrgti]

:mrgreen:

-Brandon

lol he gave me the are you kidding me look, but he realized i wasnt kidding and went and eated the green

 

[miloandrufusdragons]

I feed supers and my girls love em. But they both are 18 inch and almost 4 yrs. I agree that supers shouldnt be fed till 15 or 16 inch 17 to be safe. U could try small and micro supers but it might be better off feeding crix and roaches. I havent dealt with young juvies as I got mine as adults.

 

[sammyrgti]

Hi everyone, back again, so Ezi since i stopped giving him superworms hasn't pooped but once in since i wrote this subject, i gave him a couple warm baths but they didn't help, he isn't showing any signs of impaction so i don't think its the case but he has started to hide in his cave allot lately, he barely eats anymore before he would eat 3 times a day, now he eats twice, around ten crickets daily and half a collard green, the problem is before i made the mistake of giving him supers he would eat 25-35 crickets a day

Any ideas or thoughts?

 

[unkempt1]

Hate to change the subject, some good dialogue here, but I'm curious; what kind of substrate are you using?

 

[sammyrgti]

For the past 4 months i have been using wood chips and was working great he was perfect attitude and appetite very happy dragon, a few days ago i changed to tile and he hasn't been the same since, but that wouldn't make since to me if his acting different cuz i put tile would it.

 

[unkempt1]

For the past 4 months i have been using wood chips and was working great he was perfect attitude and appetite very happy dragon, a few days ago i changed to tile and he hasn't been the same since, but that wouldn't make since to me if his acting different cuz i put tile would it.

His behavior totally makes sense! First off, let me say kudos for changing to a safer substrate. Wood chips can be bad news. People may have told you to leave your dragon alone the first week or so when you brought him home to let them acclimate to their new environment. Now that you have changed his environment, you have to do that again.

2-3 months ago I changed from paper towels to sand substrate. My dragon hid in her cave, a cave she had never used before mind you, for three days! I would take her out to feed her, and after a bit she would crawl back in! She did this for almost a week, then went back to normal.

So give your dragon a little space for the next few days, and don't be surprised if he acts a little different. :twisted: