Superworm breeding, incubator/warmer idea/experiment.

[h0ndap0w3r]

alright well i wanted to give breeding superworms a shot so i ordered about 250 from mulberry farms, i received them and separated out about 24 just to see what would happen.

the experiment that i mentioned in the title consist of 3 groups of worms, 1 placed in my closet, and the other placed in a warmer that i built.

Will worms that are kept warm, high 70's to mid 80's begin to pupate faster then those kept at merely room temperature?

Equipment: my home made incubator that utilizes a piece of 24x12 sheet metal, with zoomeds heat cable taped to the bottom with a rheostat controlling it. Temps are taken with zoomed probe thermometers.

the 1st group of 24 worms was palced in my closet on 11/12 (a brief break down of the data i collected:

Day 1: 24 worms separated
Day 9: 1 dead, 9 curling
Day 11: 10 curling, 2 aliens
Day 18: 3 Dead, 4 curling, 13 aliens

2nd group of test subjects consisted of 33 worms placed in my warmer on 11/20

Day 1: 33 worms separated
Day 5: 19 curling
Day 6: 23 curling
Day 10: 1 Dead, 12 curling, 14 aliens

3rd test group thats in its early stages but supports group 2 separated on 11/25

Day 1: 33 worms separated
Day 4: 4 curling
Day 5: 15 curling

The temperatures for the 1st group were room temperature, meaning anything that the ambient temps in my room where, which range from low 60's into the 80's.

The temperatures for the 2nd and 3rd group have been kept inbetween 75-85 degrees constantly

Conclusion: if worms are kept separated around high 70's to mid 80's metamorphosis occurs significantly faster then at room temperature.

the warmer. . .

The bins:

An alien:

Temperatures:

 

[Grixxly15]

Great experiment!!! This is the stuff a lot of people like to know about.

 

[h0ndap0w3r]

I was thinking that this is something that a few people might like to know about, i want to wait for beetles so i can post up some more information and my findings. . . one thing i have noticed for sure is that keeping them warm is alot more efficient then just letting them be. until i get some beetles which should be any day now ill wait to make an update. . .

if anyone wants to know any more about what im doing feel free to ask and ill be glad to let you know.

 

[vickson420]

Topic moved to Feeders

 

[h0ndap0w3r]

i got beetles! i need to update this after finals are over

 

[fresnowitte]

Yes your supers will pupate faster if you keep them in the low to mid 80's an in the dark. Mine take about 5 days where before at room temp and not in the dark they were taking closer to 2 weeks. If you only use the very biggest fattest worms you won't have any worms die before they morph.

Gee hOndapOw3r I noticed that you use the same little togo containers as I do for your isolated worms. :lol:

Now I can't wait for you to get to the baby worm stage as I'd love some fresh ideas on how to get the baby worms to grow faster :lol: without useing brewers yeast of course. They do seem to grow a bit faster with a cormeal or chicken mash added to the baby worm substrate though.

I don't know if you've read this thread or not but there's alot of good information in it about breeding supers.
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=85334

 

[h0ndap0w3r]

Yeah i use the same lil containers and i bought a hole puncher to punch tiny holes around the rim of the cup so i could stack them okay while still keeping the ventilation.

yeah i have been reading up on that one too, as for the baby worms i've been thinking about different types of bedding to use and possible substrates that could be slightly different or that haven't been thought of yet. I know they seem to like plant matter, so ive been thinking about using alfalfa since its nutritional content is actually pretty good.

Crude protein min 17%
crude fat min 1.5%
Crude Fiber 30%
Moisture max 12%

right now im using blended oatmeal, wheat bran, corn meal, and some mixed fruit baby cereal.

does anyone know the actual diet of a superworm or what it consist of? do they require high amounts of protein?

i have also noticed that my other worms seem to be more active with a small amount of light, like on a low shelf in a room.

 

[MAJ]

Great idea for an experiment.
As fresnowitte suggests, you should see the warmer ones go faster. However, I am not sure of how much faster. It should be interesting to see. i have pupated a number of beetles (superworms), moths (waxworms and hornworms- the hornworms didn't make it) and butterflies (black swallowtails and monarchs, not as feeders) over the last six months. In many cases, I often did it at temperatures a fair bit below what is considered "ideal", but didn't really notice much difference in what I expected for pupation time. I didn't rigorously look at the times, though. I didn't rigorously study the times, however. I suspect that the difference may have been a day or two.
One observation that is jumping out at me right off the bat is the difference in die off rates so far. Three dead of the initial 24 seems pretty high. Did you measure or try to control for worm size in selecting the worms for pupation? The size of the worms and their "readiness" to pupate (at any temperature) will affect your outcomes. Just the extra eight days of "plumping up" prior to pupation in the second group may be making a difference in your die off rate (and speed of pupation). I only pupate my biggest worms. These are always in excess of two inches long, usually 2.25 inches in length or longer. I find that anything smaller either:
-takes longer to curl and pupate, or
-just doesn't have the stored energy to pupate and dies off.

Just my $0.02. Interesting work so far.

 

[h0ndap0w3r]

Great idea for an experiment.
One observation that is jumping out at me right off the bat is the difference in die off rates so far. Three dead of the initial 24 seems pretty high. Did you measure or try to control for worm size in selecting the worms for pupation? The size of the worms and their "readiness" to pupate (at any temperature) will affect your outcomes. Just the extra eight days of "plumping up" prior to pupation in the second group may be making a difference in your die off rate (and speed of pupation). I only pupate my biggest worms. These are always in excess of two inches long, usually 2.25 inches in length or longer. I find that anything smaller either:
-takes longer to curl and pupate, or
-just doesn't have the stored energy to pupate and dies off.
.

all of the worms used in the 1st batch were over 2 inches long, however they were used right after i received my shipment of supers. this could have changed things a tiny bit if they were not feed properly at the breeder.

bin number 1:
die off rate 12%
successful aliens 67%
successful beetles so far 30%

i also want to repeat my control group just to give me a wider range.

*note i released 7 of them back into the bin since after 2 weeks they did not want to curl and showed no signs of doing so.

 

[MAJ]

all of the worms used in the 1st batch were over 2 inches long, however they were used right after i received my shipment of supers. this could have changed things a tiny bit if they were not feed properly at the breeder.

bin number 1:
die off rate 12%
successful aliens 67%
successful beetles so far 30%

i also want to repeat my control group just to give me a wider range.

Good to hear.
Sorry-- I had to ask. I review medical literature as part of my job, and can't help but ask such questions when I see someone doing any kind of experiments or writing a paper.
Sounds like they are a good size. I don't think that I have ever had more than a total 2% or 3% die-off rate for superworms, so your 12% really jumped out at me.
Repeating your control group will eb interesting as well. Assuming all else is equal, it would be an interesting look at the stresses of shipping etc. on the immediate breeding fitness of the worms.
I can be such a nerd...

 

[h0ndap0w3r]

its okay, not to big a deal on being a nerd. . . im studying hotel and restaurant management, and my screen name is H0ndap0w3r. . . can you say nerdy asian?! haha anyways, yes i want to repeat my control group just to see if and what the differences are. if i wasn't a nerd i wouldnt be doing this experiment, but i also look for faster and more efficient ways to do things and to pass on the information to others which may or may not help them.

 

[h0ndap0w3r]

I got baby worms!!!! woo!!!

 

[clear]

I would like to note, that if you have them to hot they will die off also. I have a few extra worms that I might start back experimenting with! Get a small scale and weight the worms before you put them in the container, I have a feeling that the smaller worms are the ones that are dieing off. If we can figure out what the weight needs to be then we can all have less die off!

I would love to also figure out how to make the babies grow faster, I have tried high protein food, oatmeal, grits and they all seem to grow at the same speed.

 

[h0ndap0w3r]

I think i figured out the sweet spot as far as temperature is concerned. That spot is somewhere between about 80-85, any higher then they start to eat each other and/or die off. It was strange because i couldnt figure out why i was having such high die off's for a lil while. Come to find out that my rheostat wasnt calibrated right since CA had a lovely heatwave that came through and gave us temps in the high 70's and low 80's.

But inbetween this temp they seem to do extremely well, i also use some corn meal, which seems to make them grow a bit faster. If you also keep them dark and warm they seem to thrive.

I need to post pics of my new setup when i get home, since i made a box out of 1.25in styrofoam insulation with some heat cable. . .