Store didn't feed him properly+clumsy..update Jan 17 won't e

[punkrockprincess]

I have a 3 month old Beardie named Dante that seems to have a few feeding problems. Dante will manage to catch 2-20 crickets a day total (20 if he's starved) but I have seen him miss time and time again. At first I blamed it all on relocation stress and lighting. I changed to reptisun, I made sure my temps were perfect and I dust crickets with calcium 5 times a week and vitamins 2 times a week.
I tried feeding him a smaller area only to find that he was deperately rubbing his face on the glass just miserable and showed no interest in cricketrs...I set up a background hoping it was a reflection issue...nope still does it.

I saw him last night looking so thin and frail and I reached a breaking point and called the store he was bought from. He was being raised on only mealworms and salad can you freaking believe it!? I feel like the worst lizard-mommy in the world for this but in desperation last night I fed him mealworms...he ate 22 and still wanted more but my conscience wouldn't let me feed him the full tub of 40. I know mealworms are bad as a staple and I know they're fattening..so skip that lecture please lol.

I am at a loss for what to do...he clearly has problems catching crickets for himself or at least catching the amount he needs to get big. He absolutly loves his veggies though ( I think its because they can't run away from him lol).

 

[runningguy]

If you can afford the cost, try giving him phoenix worms or silkworms for a while to boost his health. Then see if he is better at catching live prey.

Or put the crickets in the refridgerator before feeding so they will be slowed down. Just don't leave them in long enough to kill them. But I have been told that some dragons won't eat cold food.

 

[fresnowitte]

You could always try another type of feeder like Phoenix worms...or have you tried slowing the crickets down by removing their back legs or placing them in the frig for a few seconds? That's worked for me in the past with babies that have trouble catching or are slightly afraid of crickets.

Edit: :lol: Runningguy beat me.

PS
You don't leave the crickets in the frig long enough to get that cold. :wink:

 

[punkrockprincess]

I only have acess to the basic pet stores:
PetSmart and Petland which sell mealworms, waxworms, supers, and crickets.

I am trying to find a bait shop or something of the like. Money is and isn't an issue for me..I am going to vet med school next year sooo yeah most of what I earn goes into saving for that. I am hoping specialize in herps
Is there a chance that Dante is hooked on mealworms? I was thinking about it all morning and feeling like poop for feuling his addiction last night.

 

[fresnowitte]

Silkies and Hornworms are very expensive in the pet store when an if you can find them. Butterworms I've yet to find at any of the pet stores in our area. I like the butters as they are no maintenance other than keeping them in the frig and last up to 3 months. The beardies like them they aren't that gross more like a peach gummy worm. :lol: Roaches are usually irresistible to beardies too.

I'm not sure where you are located, but you could look into some online suppliers near you with shipping fees that won't kill you. I live in California USA an order my treats that I don't care to grow from http://www.mulberryfarms.com/store/index.php When placing online orders try to order multiple things that you can make last by feeding the feeders with the shortest live span first this way the shipping isn't so bad.

If you must feed him a few of the mealworms try to give him the mealworms that are freshly molted/shed if possible...that way the chitins won't be quite as hard...and yes they can become addicted to them. The same seems to go for the superworms as well...I have to offer those last when feeding my beardies or that is all they will want to eat.

Hope you reach your goal with ease. :wink:
We need more herp vets....I travel over 2 hours to the closest qualified herp vet and just look how populated Cali is. :roll:

 

[runningguy]

If he is really underfed and you have access to waxworms, try some of those. They are soft so there is no digestion issues. They are higher in fat than mealworms, but if he is so skinny that it is a serious health issue I would give him whatever he wants for now. He might be stubborn later on though.

According to a paper published by the Michigan State U zoologoly dept. waxworms have less crude fat than superworms. Testing of insects can give really different results depending on the testing methods. The paper is in the thread "Questions on Feeders" in the Feeders section.

Also try http://www.bugorder.com for feeders in Alberta Canada. I don't know anything about them since I live in the US but I saw the website.

 

[romanfj]

Incoordination can be a sign of hypocalcemia (MBD). As a vet student, I'm sure you know ionic calcium is critical in muscle contraction and nerve signal conduction. I'm also certain you know that if one electrolyte is out of balance, it can throw others (sodium, chloride, potassium, etc) out of whack, all of which which also contribute to muscle contraction, nerve conduction and osmotic equilibrium.

That said, while calcium dusting is a great way to ensure your healthy dragon gets enough calcium, if the animal is hypocalcemic because the pet store was unaware of his dietary requirements and/or did not provide him with enough UVB exposure (you can give a dragon enough calcium to turn him into a rock, but without UVB, his body cannot metabolize and assimilate the calcium), dusting will not provide enough calcium. Liquid calcium (calcium glubionate) is far more readily absorbed by a dragon and will help elevate ionic serum clacium levels, as well as remineralize his bones, if this is the case. One of the moderators Drache has just opened an online store and offers this product.

Does he hold his head tilted, walk slightly crooked, tip over when striking at crickets? These are signs of a middle or inner ear infection.

Finally, dubia roaches are slower than crickets, just as good nutritionally and are flat and broad in shape, presenting a larger, slower target. Check out Marcus at AFExotics or Ian at The Roach Ranch. Both are masters at insulating their packages for cold weather shipping and include 48 or 72 hour heat brick with them. Roaches look more expensive per bug han crickets, but the dragon will eat fewer becuase each roac has more "meat" on it.

Waxworms are great to put some weight on a dragon, but do not feed them exclusively; still provide some crickets or roaches as well. I have a boy who went on a 2-week hunger strike when I finally quit giving him waxies to boost his weight back to normal after I rescued him. He wanted his waxies back!

Lastly, since you are dealing with a malnourished dragon, he likely has some vitamin and mineral defiiencies. The vitamins sold, such as ReptiLife, are decent, but the fact of the matter is that no one really knows what vitamin/mineral needs are for beardies. Do you know why everyone recommends vitamin supplementation only 1-2 times a week? Too much vitamin A (which is verylittle for beardies) causes liver failure very quickly. Further, not all greens are created equally. Some are relatively higher in oxalic acid which binds ionic calcium, making it biologically unavailable (you want to avoid this if you think he might be hypocalcemic). Veronica Reilly at BeautifulDragons.org has a fantastic nutritional chart. Try and incorporate as much vegetational variety as you can in his diet.

Hope this helps.
Frank (former veterinary surgical assistant, pre-vet student, pharmacy tech, and present-day chemist)

 

[ColasisKeeper]

when Colasis started on crickets he couldnt always get them cause they are fast sometimes we cut off their back legs so they just sort of scooted around ..I know it was mean but he was able to get them.

 

[Angiecountrygirl]

Hello...
Sometimes it takes our Beardies a while to get used to a new diet- don't worry as he gets settled in he will eat better. Falkor loves butter, phoenis and wax worms way more than crickets - but I still give her them now and again. She catches the crickets really quickly if I give her one or two at a time- but that takes to long for me as I'm impatient, lol. I always put a ziplock bag of crickets in the freezer for about a minute (no more than 2 minutes), then I put them in a bowl for her. It's so much easier for her to eat them at once, because the cold slows the crickets down to the slightest movement (just enough to get her attention, lol).
Good luck and I hope this helps you.

 

[gizmo17]

I only have acess to the basic pet stores:
PetSmart and Petland which sell mealworms, waxworms, supers, and crickets.

I am trying to find a bait shop or something of the like. Money is and isn't an issue for me..I am going to vet med school next year sooo yeah most of what I earn goes into saving for that. I am hoping specialize in herps
Is there a chance that Dante is hooked on mealworms? I was thinking about it all morning and feeling like poop for feuling his addiction last night.

omg i was in philly for my family and i took my gizmo with me his staple insect is the silkworm so i went to petsmart only to find out they don't even know what a silkworm is haha i went to so many pet stores and couldn't find one hahah xD imo petsmart sux

 

[punkrockprincess]

Does he hold his head tilted, walk slightly crooked, tip over when striking at crickets? These are signs of a middle or inner ear infection.

He does do that but its when its something he's never seen before like today with silkworms and waxworms. It was like he was saying, "huh? what's this?" but he doesn't start to tip over just cocks his head. The lady at the store said three silks should keep him happy for a week...he downed 3 silkworms and 19 waxworms tonight and a few crickets beforehand. I was a proud lizard-mommy

BTW all of you guys are awesome the slow crickets down by freezing them trick really worked well! I didn't have the heart to rip the backlegs off the crickets He does seem to prefer worms though vs.crickets which is funny because I thought all beardies enjoyed the hunt-and-chase part of crickets...I guess Dante is just different than Gaz..she actually turned her nose up at waxies and silks tonight to my complete amazement.

 

[runningguy]

Great that he is eating! Just remember that waxworms are high in fat so if he will he more crickets and less waxworms, that would be ideal. Also, silkworms are very healthy (so I have read) and I'm sure he could eat a lot more than three in a week (or a day).

My beardie also seems like worms more than crickets. I think this is common.

 

[punkrockprincess]

So just as I started to feel confident about Dante and saw him getting a belly...he stopped eating. I'm talking no touching mealies, waxies, even his silks. I even used tongs and tried to feed him silks and it failed. I slowed down crickets for him and he ate...one and that was it----nothing else interested him. He is shedding and I know this takes a toll on hunger but seriously...one cricket!?

He seemed fine yesterday but went to bed way earlier than normal (an hour before or so before I turn the lights off).This is pretty odd for Dante because he's always the first up and the last to go to sleep (compared to Gaz). This morning he was in his house awake but wouldn't come out so I went to class and came back around noon to find him still there. I took out his house to try and get him to bask...it worked..he went from grey to happy colours.

I just got a new repti-sun on thurs (the bar kind that spans the whole cage) and he was doing so well..till today. They were on Repti-glo for a week or two after the repti-sun I was lent crapped out after two days (the person that lent it to me did say that it was probably past its time). The response to the new repti-sun was unbelievable! Dante turned out to have all these hidden colours inside of him that I had no idea exsisted poor baby was probably majorly deprived...it just makes me sick.

Now as you all know Dante is probably stunted due to his own unique personality and bad care during the vital time of growth. I did notice he already has pre-anal pores that are noticeable which, (correct me if I'm wrong) I shouldn't be seeing on a beardie that is believed to be 2-4 months. How old is he then!? Could he be getting ready to brumate? He sits right now at 9 inches and is slowly and stubbornly growing 1/2 inch a week..if he is much older than suspected is there a chance I can get him to reach a ft. He is odd because he's all length and not much bulk..I swear Gaz started seriously bulking up around 7 inches.

 

[andrewlloyd]

pre-anal pores

Sorry, what are they?

 

[Smid]

If you are in Edmonton there is a good store on the West end that sells butters, super worms, phoenix.... anything you could imagine that he would eat. It's called Just Reptiles (16308 111 Avenue Northwest) and Bugorder.com is great - they are in Morinville and if you have a car you can pick up your bugs at the shell station there for zero shipping!!!!

Liz