somethings very wrong with luna

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is Luna doing today? Where are you located, the US or somewhere else?
You have removed the sand, correct? It looks like there is a mat in there now, right?
The Reptisun UVB you have is a compact/coil light which doesn't emit much usable UVB. I
highly recommend replacing it with a Reptisun 10 tube at the very least & mounting it under
neath of the screen alongside of a basking bulb. You can have the basking bulb on top of the
screen though, as long as the temperatures are optimal.
You are sure he has gout, how was he diagnosed? If he does have gout, he would greatly
benefit from gout medication to help out his kidneys.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[kingofnobbys]

ok the tank is in farenhight , i give her a the daily because she likes it and since she has gout its better to offer maximum drinking,hher last poo was friday, the UVB bulb is florescent and is 10.0 watts,
no such compact globe or fluorescent tube ---- sure it's not a 10%UVB compact ?
If it's only a 13W , it's way too weak , the hatchling would have to use the dome reflector and 13W 10%UVB globe as a hat to get enough UVB , even if it's a 25W 1%UVB compact , it's too far away to be of benefit to the hatchling.
Better off investing in a EXOTERRA NANO HOOD , and mounting an EXOTERRA 25W UVB200 (10%UVB) globe in it , mounted UNDER THE LID , see link already provided regarding setup for lights.

its on the mesh and its 3 inches away from her basking spot,
Unfortunately the mesh will be blocking about 45% of the UVA & UVB from the compact and of the UVA from the Neodymium basking globe .
So at 3" , assuming the globe is a 25W 10%UVB , even if in a reflector dome (doubles the UV) , but 45% is blocked by the mesh (so this counters the benefit of the reflector dome out) , the UVB flux is unlikely to be higher than 130 microW UVB / sq.cm with the current setup, which is not even remotely adequate for a growing hatchling bearded dragon.
You can double the UV from the compact by cutting a hole in the mesh so it doesn't obstruct the UVA & UVB from the compact UVB globe , this will increase UVA & UVB at the basking spot.

and the lights are on 14 hours everyday,
<<<< that's OK …. I suggest nudging it up by 1 to 2 hours

the black out bulb gives out a purplish light and produces heat
<<<< so it's a NIGHT LIGHT (meant only for nocturnal species like geckos) like this http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/night_heat_lamp.php ?

, if it gives of any visible light at night, it will likely disturb the sleep of the hatchling.

If it's chilly in the room where her tank is , you need one of these
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/ceramic_heater.php on a dimming thermostat , these give off heat ONLY , no light …. and if you have one controlled by a dimming thermostat …. it can be left on 24/7 , the thermostat will automatically turn off the current to it during the day if the basking globe provides enough heat.



( at night her tanks like 70-75 degrees, i will send pics in a little while , the vita sand it OUT every grain!!!! Could someone send me a pic of there tank setup so i can get an idea of what mine should look like

 

[kingofnobbys]

Hello,

How is Luna doing today? Where are you located, the US or somewhere else?
You have removed the sand, correct? It looks like there is a mat in there now, right?
The Reptisun UVB you have is a compact/coil light which doesn't emit much usable UVB. I
highly recommend replacing it with a Reptisun 10 tube at the very least & mounting it under
neath of the screen alongside of a basking bulb. You can have the basking bulb on top of the
screen though, as long as the temperatures are optimal.
You are sure he has gout, how was he diagnosed? If he does have gout, he would greatly
benefit from gout medication to help out his kidneys.

I'm doubtful too …. more likely she's been fed Calcium & artificial VitD3 , but been unable to process it (not enough UVB exposure) so it's more likely hypocalcemia and vitamin D toxicity http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/ceramic_heater.php

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[lunaloo]

as u can see she is still doing that limping thing. Its more of a jump hobble but I'm going to camp in a little while so i=anything i can tell my parents to help her would be great!! is there anyway that i can cure mbd? am i rlly malnutriting my little loobug? i have taken out every grain of sand and replaced it with her old repticarpet umm i kida just thought she had gout cause of her legs they are kinda big and puffy.... will she die i need to know that so i can be ready for it.....

 

[kingofnobbys]

as u can see she is still doing that limping thing. Its more of a jump hobble but I'm going to camp in a little while so i=anything i can tell my parents to help her would be great!! is there anyway that i can cure mbd? am i rlly malnutriting my little loobug? i have taken out every grain of sand and replaced it with her old repticarpet umm i kida just thought she had gout cause of her legs they are kinda big and puffy.... will she die
<<<< not likely …. but it is likely to take a long time (months) for her to come good and she may be permanently disabled , but so long as you get her tank sorted and the UV and temperatures right , and get he diet and husbandry on track there is no reason why she can't live a long happy and healthy life even if she's disabled …. lots of pet lizards have worse disabilities such as missing limbs and so long as their human carer makes the right changes to accommodate their mobility issues , disabilities they do fine.

It's taken a long time to for her get to the condition she's in , you should allow her at least as long to heal and be rehabilitated properly ….


Lots of beardies walk about with their hands flipped like that sometimes …. just through sheer laziness --- if she only does it occasionally and not all the time …. he may be perfectly fine wrt MBD in arms and hands , hard to tell in the photos if there's any swelling / inflammation in the arms / legs .

You haven't told us how the vet diagnosed gout …. what tests were done ? (if any or is he / she just guessing .

I think xrays of the dragon and it's limbs will help determine her metabolic bone desease status and if she has calcium precipitating in the limbs.

Gout / renal issues :

As a general rule, pyelonephritis has a fair prognosis if caught early and treated appropriately.
However, once the kidney has been irreparably damaged, amelioration of the disease is possible
but a full recovery is not.
Management of the reptile in renal failure is aimed at improving the thermal environment,
adequate hydration (20 ml water/kg orally (PO) once daily (SID) minimum), and a diet that
provide a small amount of high quality protein with low levels of potassium and phosphorus.
Kidney infections are often treatable so antibiotics should be considered even if the urine was
nondiagnostic. Diuresis with dilute saline may be helpful (20 ml/kg SID, often by intraosseous
(IO) catheter hooked to a syringe pump or by subcutaneous or intracoelomice route). Soaking in
shallow lukewarm water will help with diuresis. Gavaging with water may also help provided
you are not inducing fluid overload. Allopurinol (10 mg/kg PO SID) has ameliorated effects of
hyperuricemia in some animals. Red palm oil and other omega fatty acid mixes may help reduce
inflammation, and supplemental B-vitamins and elemental liquid diets may help provide
appropriate nutrition. Typically a reptile will show improvement within 5-7 days of fluid
therapy although sometimes it may take 2-3 wk.

https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/posting.php?mode=edit&f=45&p=1861761
i need to know that so i can be ready for it.....

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is your dragon today?
Can you post some close up pictures of your dragon's hands/feet, etc?
Metabolic bone disease causes swelling of the joints or surrounding areas due to bone traumas
& overall bone structure weakness.
Are you able to get a new UVB light also?
I'm glad to hear you have removed all loose sand. The reptile carpet will be fine for her.
To me, she doesn't look overly thin. Though, since she isn't eating very much right now, you can
get some chicken or turkey baby food, & mix it with squash baby food or sweet potato baby food
to help get some nutrition into her.
If possible, it would be really helpful to get an x-ray on her so you can see her bone integrity so
then we can make a better diagnosis for you & help more.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie

 

[Beardeddtagonlover]

For the substrate the easiest is vynil tile the one without the adhesive you can cut it with scissors you can get a roll at the hardware store for like 25 dollars and you can make lots of carpets or you can get tile but there harded to fit

 

[lunaloo]

ok update... luna is a lot better like a lot!!!! she's running around normal and is in perfect health. is there anything that will help her growing i can give her?

 

[kingofnobbys]

ok update... luna is a lot better like a lot!!!! she's running around normal and is in perfect health. is there anything that will help her growing i can give her?

That's fab news …. so it's just laziness and MBD causing the wrist walking.

How old is Luna ? Looks no more than 6 months old to me.

Lots of high quality live insects, as many as she wants AT LEAST twice per day.

>> Black soldier fly lavae / pupae and the flies (quite slow moving and ditto) … try to get the white very wrigglely lavae ...these will be more "interesting" to a hatchling and they must be separated from the bedding they come in (I simply fish them out by hand).
>> small silkworms (if the hatchling is under 50g I'd offer silkworms 1" - 1.5" long) , Luna will easily scoff down 2" silkworms
>> suitable sized crickets *, roaches* or locusts *
* not longer than the distance between the hatchlings' eyes, and gutloaded with high calcium greens , carrot and dry lizard pellets (crickets love them) , and dusted every feed.

compare feeder insects : viewtopic.php?f=34&t=235611
veg : http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

Under 6 months old , 3 meals of live insects (as many as the hatching wants in a sitting) per day, offer salad but is not important if the hatchling shows no interest in the green stuff and grated vegs.
Need more than 95% live insects while very young and rapidly growing and developing as a hatchling.

See this for indications of sizes feeders
silkworm size that's OK for a 2 month old hatchling

Crickets (I'd be looking for 1/4 to 1/3 size crickets)