Something I learned from a vet***important

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Ker6176

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So my sweet Ironhide passed away last friday. I loved him more than i love most of my family. So when he went from healthy to Dying in 2 days. I wanted more information. He is what i have so far and i learned this from Herp vets my new Vet (which if anyone needs a vet in pittsburgh please reply). But i feel i should spread my knowledge so no one goes through this too.

Evidently Reptile Livers are easily affected. Liver diesase and Liver failure are very common. There isnt much research being done and this is seen as a secondary condition because other organs fail as well. So heart failure, kidney failure and other organs giving out may be cause by Liver failure.

So the best ways to prevent are more difficult that expected. The liver processes metabolism and most of their processes. I did not know this but evidently their liver helps process the vitamin D so they can process calcium. Vitamin D is given to them by their UVB bulbs. This keeps them alive. Here is the issue...too much UVB and they over produce vitamin D which can be stored in the body and cause liver issues. So the thing they need to live will also kill them. OUr vet suggested using the ordinary bulb all day and the UVB bulb for only a few hours a day rather than the full day. We have the rest of our kids (7 total) on a timer now so i will update if that causes any issues like MBD.

Another is going light on fatty foods. especially after brumation. Evidently after they stop eatting for a long time or go through a period of anexoria our main priority is to get them fat and healthy again. Usually after they stop eatting for a long time they need to gain weight. Most people suggest wax worms because they are high in fat. Here is the issue.... The fat they are given will over work and damage the liver so once again something they are given to survive will kill them. So what i was told is when they stop eatting for a period of time and they start eatting again....they need low fat high protein. It will make them gain weight without the fat. This way the liver wont fail. Please post any low fat high protein items you know about.

Some signs to look for....
Stop eatting, Sleeping mroe than usual. Color in skin is lighter, dehydrated even though is drinking. Sunken in looking.

the worst sign in Jaundice. This is yellow pigment in the skin, mouth and body. You see yellow, go right to a vet. This means the liver IS more than likely failing. We lost 2 dragons to this and the first was over a year ago. We were told fungus and infection. After thousands of dollars spent at an incompetite doctor he passed but our new vet strongly believes it was the same issue. So when your baby is no longer eatting, sluggish and just not themselves. See a vet and have their liver checked. Trust me... a simple scan can save your beardies life. Ironhide was everything to me and if i knew what i knew now he may still be with me and sleeping on my face everynight.
 

randommonks

Sub-Adult Member
This is suprising to hear. I know in humans, it's never been reported that someone OD'ed on Vitamin D from the sun, it normally comes from oversupplementation, and even then in massive doses above the recommended intake. It is feasible that a beardie might OD on Vit D from too much vitamin dusting. I know virtually nothing about bearded dragon physiology. Do you know where your vet got his/her information? It'll normally be in the form of a scientific, peer reviewed paper published in a reputable journal. I would be very interested to read it.

It has been shown that the amount of UVB produced by the tube bulbs is barely equivalent to the amount of UVB that you'd get from sitting in the shade so it's a little hard to imagine too much UV from those bulbs. I'm sorry to hear about Ironhide :(
 

ataraxia

Hatchling Member
sorry for your loss.

i have not done enough research on beardeds to see if the can "bask" for to long. i know many lizards body will only produce the right amount of vitd and thats it. panther chameleons actually can determine when they have enough and move away from the sun. that amazes me. anyways. i think where people go wrong is when you have sufficient uvb and you supplement with d3 to often. if your uvb lights are in good order or if your lizards is kept outdoors i would recommend only using d3 supplements 1-2 times a month. plain phos free calcium should be used on most feedings.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I am sorry to hear that you lost your little one, that is never easy to handle. :cry:
What type of UVB light were you using, a fluorescent tube bulb or a compact/coil light?
They really can't overdose on natural D3 or natural sunlight. Otherwise they would not make it outside! When exposed to the proper UVB light & wavelength frequencies, their bodies synthesize D3 naturally but only make what it needs & stores what he needs in his bones, bloodstream, etc.

Yes, the liver is instrumental in breaking down D3 into calcediol or 25 Hydroxy-vitamin D3. It is then circulated in the blood stream & taken up into the kidneys which it then converts it to Calcetriol which helps to maintain the calcium status in the body, by helping with calcium metabolism. So, basking will not overdose them with D3 at all. The conversion of the previtamin D3 to vitamin D3 slow anyway, because it is stored in the cell membrane to be absorbed into the blood stream later.
What can happen is if there is not enough UVB present, they are not able to absorb their calcium & or other vitamins which can cause problems such as toxicity or malabsorption.

Here is a great article to read:
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/vitdpathway.htm

Depending on the light a few short hours of UVB probably wont be quite enough exposure.

As far as the fat intake, that is correct. Their livers do not absorb large amounts of fat very well. It is better to keep them on an even keel with some variety of foods. They normally go awhile without eating during brumation phases so it is a good idea to start them out slow with eating higher fat foods. Sudden influxes of large amounts of fat can cause liver issues, yes.

Tracie
 

Iggy63

Member
so sorry for your loss.... these little guys just steal your heart don't they...

not to go off topic but now i am totally confused about the uvb lighting.. I need to replace mine but don't know what to get..
 
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