Sick Beardie - Constant Cage Rage

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MrPixel

Member
Hi,

I have a bearded dragon (Itchy) just about one month now. A week ago, I discovered he had what looked like mouth rot, I took him to the vet right away and they said it was a tumor, and have given me antibiotics (Baytril) to give him twice a day, if it doesn't clear then they can perform surgery and remove it.

The good news is the baytril does seem to be clearing the tumor, his mouth looks much better and he is more active, however its not completely clear just yet, still a few more days of treatment left.

The bad news is every since then he has been increasingly unhappy in his vivarium and in the mornings constantly wants to get out.

The day before I took him to the vet, I put him in a new vivarium (Vivexotic EX48) with a new UVB and Basking light.

I had initially purchased a "Starter Setup" from the pet shop:
2ft x 2ft x 3ft Clearseal vivarium.
150w Exo-Terra Sun-Glo
15w Exo-Terra 18" Repti-Glo 5.0 UVB
Repti bark substrate.
Heat mat and other misc furnishings.

This setup was ok, however I found that it would get very warm under the basking light; 110 - 120°F on the ground (18" distance), and also, the bulb started to burn burn the top of the vivarium.

With the risk of fire and it generally overheating, I wanted to get him into a bigger space, but also a safer one. Another change I wanted to make was away from the Repti-bark to play sand, the bark isn't easy to keep clean and finding feces in it isn't the easiest either.

His new setup:
Vivexotic EX48 (approx 2ft x 2ft x 4ft)
60w Zoo Med Basking Spot Lamp (Testing - so far today it has reached 100 - 110°F on a slightly elevated basking area.)
30w Exo-Terra 36" Repti-Glo 10.0 UVB (Which he can get to within 6" of.)
Washed play sand.
Heat mat (same).

Even with the new lights installed in the vivarium today, he is still constantly trying to get out of the vivarium, I'll let him out because I can't stand knowing he is in distress, but he'll still be walking from corner to corner of the room, and never seems to be happy whatever I try to do.

Although his eating has reduced (which the vet said might happen because of the tumor), its only slightly and he is still eating crickets, locust and his veggies.

I should note, that before all of this, once every couple of days, he would get into cage rage mode when he wanted out, but it would rare, I'd take him out, let him run around, and then put him back in and he'd be fine.

I'm sorry if I've left anything out here, but please feel free to ask anything you need to know.

Can anyone please help? Although I try to read as much care sheets, forum articles and so on, I'm still very worried I'm doing something right. He's a great beardie and I want him to have as happy a life as possible.

Thank you.
 

zebraflavencs

Extreme Poster
Your problem is one, the UVB. If you switch out that glo with a ReptiSUN 10.0 Tube, I think you will see a whole different dragon...Just switch off the glo for now. It's far better to have no UVB for a short period of time than Bad UVB ;)
Two, you don't need the heating pad. Now if you have that mounted on a Side, not under the viv, Leave it for winter time, but for now, you shouldn't have it on.
Also what therm are you using to get your temps ? If you don't have a digi with probe ( probe directly on the basking spot 45 minutes for an accurate reading) or a Temp gun then most likely those temps are off by as much as 20*F !
Hope this helps out...If you need a link for the Sun, here it is ;)
http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-fluorescent-bulbs/504983/zoo-med-reptisun-10.0-uvb-bulb.html
Janie
 

spurlee01

BD.org Addict
Sorry your beardie isn't feeling well :( .
The first thing I notice is that you have a reptiglo 10.0. Unfortunately these bulbs have caused problems for some beardies. If you still have the receipt I would return it and get a reptiSUN 10.0 tube. The best price on these is http://www.petmountain.com.
Play sand is okay, generally, just watch him to make sure he doesn't eat any. And I'm sure I don't have to tell you to change it frequently. What are you using to measure temperatures? 60 watts doesn't seem like very much for such a big tank. Also, I would ditch the heat mat. They aren't very good for beardies. Beardies only sense heat from above so they can actually be burnt by heat mats.
I also wonder if his medicines are playing any role in his behavior. Since this started about the time he started his meds, this may be possible :? . Anyway, keep us updated on him. I'll be interested to see if others can offer you more advice.
 

MrPixel

Member
Original Poster
Hey,

Thank you very much for the prompt replies.

I mainly use the heat mat at night time, I keep it on the side wall on the warm side, it doesn't give off much heat, and he never comes in direct contact with it, however I did purchase a night heat light, for those colder nights.

I'm aware of the slight risk with sand, however I don't feed him in his vivarium, crickets / locust are feed from a small tub, and veggies are hand fed.

I'm using the small digital thermometer.

And I'm sorry to say, I cannot find my receipt for the Repti-Glo, and they won't exchange without it. But I don't really care about that, going to get him a ReptiSUN 10.0 today anyway, don't really care about the money, just want him healthy and happy.

I should note, that in all of this time, with the new bulbs, Itchy has been a lot calmer, and is basking right this minute.

Thanks again for the help, its much appreciated.

Darren.
 

spurlee01

BD.org Addict
A ceramic heat emmiter (heat only, no light) is much better for beardies than night lights. Any light at all will keep some beardies up. I have a beardie that is kept awake some times by my cell phone light or a flashlight when I'm reading (she is more the exception than the rule, but just think how much lower your quality of sleep is when there's a light on).
 

MrPixel

Member
Original Poster
spurlee01":15000 said:
A ceramic heat emmiter (heat only, no light) is much better for beardies than night lights. Any light at all will keep some beardies up. I have a beardie that is kept awake some times by my cell phone light or a flashlight when I'm reading (she is more the exception than the rule, but just think how much lower your quality of sleep is when there's a light on).

Good point... I might give a heat emitter a try. With me living in Ireland, my house can get a bit chilly at night time. Right now it drops to 60°F (70/80°F with heat mat on the side wall), and with winter coming in I am worried about the cold for him.

Thanks again :)
 

simboney7

Member
I just love reading these posts. I truly wish I had read these BEFORE I purchased my pooper since Petco and Petsmart sold me everything that you all tell us NOT to buy. :angry5: I think they should have training for their employees don't you? for instance they sold me a Red heat lamp for night and told me that the beardie wouldn't be able to see the red so it wouldn't bother him and I wont even get into the rest of the stuff he sold me. It just totally baffles me that company can have people selling animals that they know nothing about. Oh! and mind you this guy claimed he owed 4 beardies of his own. So god bless those babies. :cry:
 

MrPixel

Member
Original Poster
Thanks for the reply, Pete. I gave the pet shop a call, they've order the proper one this time (ReptiSUN 10.0 Tube - I hope), and should be in on friday. I would like to have it sooner, but better than waiting for a week or more for it to be delivered.

Failing that I'll get my money back and just go for the arcadia that you've advised.

Thanks again.
 

MrPixel

Member
Original Poster
Hmmm..... the pet shop can't get either of those bulbs in, but another pet shop has 1 in stock, and is holding it for me, a lot cheaper too.

I'm pretty sure what he's lacking is UVB, he is still unhappy under either of the UVBs I have, however he's more than happy to sit on my desk and bask under the sky light, the window is fully open, so it's unfiltered natural UVB, even if its not as warm as his vivarium. Pic (sorry about the bad light heh)

Thanks again to everyone for your help :)
 

pedrosis

Member
:D :D :D @ the pic

They love to sit in the sunshine.

Glad you have managed to track another one down from another shop. I know they are expensive but worth it as they really do make the world of difference.

Keep us updated on him when you get the other light too :D

Pete
 

MrPixel

Member
Original Poster
Ok, I managed to get the reptisun 10.0 yesterday. Itchy's first day under it today, and he's still constantly trying to get out of the vivarium. As soon as I let him out, he basks under the natural UVB from the window (fully open sky light, no glass). I doubt its the heat he's looking for, because even though its a sunny day today, its only 60°F here in Dublin at the moment.

He's able to get within 6 inches of the UVB on both the warm and cool side, his basking temp is perfect, I've even delayed giving him his medication today to see if it had any difference, and even changed his furniture around to give him more options for basking etc, but none of it has had any affect on him.

I can't take listening to him scratch at the glass anymore. I hate knowing any animal is in distress, but as much as I want to let him out, he of course needs his heat and UVB. I really don't know what to do anymore. I think the only thing that makes him settle in the evening is that the day's rage has worn him out. He had one settled moment today, for about a half hour, he was relaxing on his cool side, near his UVB, and then moved to the warm side for a few minutes, and now he's going mad to get out again.

The only other thing that I can think of now is the sand; the change to it from bark... Could that really be the cause of all this rage!? I've heard and seem many bearded dragons on sand with no problems what so ever, but I do know that for all of his life in the pet shop, bark was used as his substrate.

I know there is of course a chance this behavior is because of the tumor in his mouth, but that has gotten a great deal better, the discoloration in his mouth has almost cleared, and its not weeping anymore.

I'm at a loss, has anyone got any suggestions?

Thank you.
 

SARBEAR

Sub-Adult Member
Usually if a beardie is glass dancing he's trying to tell you there's something wrong with the temps.
When did you change him into the different viv?
Beardies are very sensitive to change, even the slightest change can be horrifying to them.

As far as Petsmart and Petco go, I work at Petsmart, and it's corporate who tells us "how to take care of the animals." They tell us everything we "need to know" and personally from reading this forum, I learned a lot of things are wrong. I always thought the info was all right since they were telling us it, and you would think PETSMART would know how to take care of them.
 
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