Sick Bearded Dragons Please HELP

[Tranica]

Hi I have two bearded dragons and I fear that they are sick. They are both about 7 months old one male one female, My roommate and I got them at an expo. The female looks like she is shedding but has looked like this for a cpl months. They both will not eat fruit or veggies, before I moved in my roommate only fed them dehydrated crickets and when I moved in two months ago I took over their care entirely. I feed them only live crickets now.

My biggest concern is that they are not moving properly, they don't lift their bodies of the ground. We just moved them to a larger tank [50 gal] and they have gotten worse since moving them, I did research and have found that they have inadequate lighting and I am worried they are starting to get MBD. I want to know any and everything I can do to save them!! PLEASE PLEASE help me!





How old is your dragon?
About 7 months old

How long have you had your dragon?
Since Novenber 2009.

How long is your dragon?
7 inches including tail

What is the sex of your dragon?
Female/Male.

What size enclosure do you have your dragon in?
50 gallons - 18"x18"x36"

What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank?
Sand

Do you use UVB lights?
Getting a Reptisun 10.0 on Friday when I get paid. Right now they only have a reptile light my roommate got at petsmart

If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb?
bulb

What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?

How old is your UVB bulb?
N/A

How close can your dragon get to the UVB?
N/A

Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage?
no

What are the basking temps?
Around 90

What is the cool side temp?
80
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun?
stick on

Where exactly are you taking your basking temps?
3 inches from light

Do you use a heat rock or heat pad?
No.
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific.
Mostly Crickets, they wont eat fruit and veggies. Just started dusting the crickets

How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)?
every other day

Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc?
I thought I was. Apparently I am not doing it correctly

Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them?
I just started dusting the crickets and I plan to do that 3 times a week

Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)?
Up until the last two weeks, now they are less frequent and are much smaller

Do you bath your dragon? How often?
2-3 times weekly

Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath?
I offer a dish of water regularly, but I've never actually seen her drink. I spray them down in the morning every day

Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon?
yes and I just read that that is not a good idea so I am going to look into another tank

Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done?
Never taken them to a vet

 

[BBandsCareTaker]

Sorry to hear about the beardies Shedding sometimes takes awhile. My beardie took a couple months to shed his tail. I guess all I can say to do with your beardies (as far as my knowledge goes, and I hope people correct me) is that beardies need the following:

1.) A good UVB and UVA source
2.) A separate heat source that heats the tank 24/7 (mostly for night heating)
3.) Minimum temp of the cooler side of the tank is 80, the hot side should be above ~105
3.) Gut loaded crickets
4.) Veggies and/or Fruits
5.) Calcium and Vitamin powder with D-3
6.) Water (Either in veggies, water bowl, baths, etc.)
7.) 1 beardie (full grown) needs at minimum a 55gal tank

With my beardie I just give him a bath every week, plus I water his veggies pretty well (I give him veggies every day). I also give him crickets 2-3 times a week (I make sure the crickets are covered in calcium powder[with D-3]). I make sure his tank is clean of "land mines" everyday. And I take him out and play/visit with him 2+ times a day. If he is about to shed I will bath him more frequently

I am sure with your beardies its the lack of lighting (UVB) and lack of calcium. Maybe try those things and double check and see if there are any improvements. I am going to read through your list (so fyi, if I sid anything you are doing...I just have not read it yet cause I am lazy ). Good luck! Ask anything you need/want to!!

 

[BBandsCareTaker]

I read what you put, here are my comments below....for others reading this PLEASE CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG, thanks!


-------------------------------------------------------------------
"What size enclosure do you have your dragon in?
50 gallons - 18"x18"x36""
-------------------------------------------------------------------
For how little they are right now this will work, if you keep them together as they get older...you will need either two tanks or one 75+ gallon tank

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank?
Sand"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Most people with argue against sand when they are so little. They do have the potential of getting compacted and dying. I have had children's (very fine and chemical free) play sand for my beardie and have not had problems. If you assume they are compacted, try giving them a bath...keep them in the water for 10 min...then just keep rubbing their belly until they leave you a 'surprise'. That should help clean their system out

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you use UVB lights?
Getting a Reptisun 10.0 on Friday when I get paid. Right now they only have a reptile light my roommate got at petsmart"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Make sure you get this (which im sure you already know) ASAP. Also, make sure you have a UVA light. Also, make sure the UVB light is pretty close to them, usually the closer the better...but keep it out of reach (for them)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb?
bulb"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I had a UVB coil bulb for awhile and switched over to a fluorescent tube and he became much happier...just putting it out there...not really implying anything

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont remember the brand names, but I know I have a 20W UVB and a 150W UVA and a 100W ceramic heater

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"How old is your UVB bulb?
N/A"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
They usually say to swap the bulb out after 6 months...or if it goes out

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"How close can your dragon get to the UVB?
N/A"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said before, the closer the better...but dont make it in reach..or a potential hazard

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage?
no"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, I have a 150W UVA bulb...basking bulb

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"What are the basking temps?
Around 90"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I would push for something around or higher than 105...not too high of course

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"What is the cool side temp?
80"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Your good there...make sure that at night the tank stays around 80+ also....thats where the ceramic heater comes in...no light, just heat

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun?
stick on"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
They say the true reading is from a digital meter, but I dont have one...Just a little reptile heater...but I double check with this non reptile digital meter I have every so often

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Where exactly are you taking your basking temps?
3 inches from light"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Take the basking temperature right where your beardies would sit, and make sure the basking like is around 6" away from where they will bask

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you use a heat rock or heat pad?
No."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Good

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific.
Mostly Crickets, they wont eat fruit and veggies. Just started dusting the crickets"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, make sure they are gut loaded crickets. Glad your dusting them. Some beardies just wont eat veggies...I would try different kinds of everything...sometimes they are just really picky, try a slow/low wave in front of them

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)?
every other day"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Veggies must be every day, and crickets 2-3 times a week...I usually do veggies right away in the morning, cause he wont eat them otherwise....then I will do crickets maybe later in the day

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc?
I thought I was. Apparently I am not doing it correctly"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Just buy them gutloaded, and make sure you just do crickets...NO MEALWORMS

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them?
I just started dusting the crickets and I plan to do that 3 times a week"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats very very good for them, make sure it had D-3 also

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)?
Up until the last two weeks, now they are less frequent and are much smaller"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Try bathing them like I was saying before...rub their belly, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you bath your dragon? How often?
2-3 times weekly"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Usually once a week is good, but if they are shedding then thats ok. Doesn't really hurt. Just make sure they are at least in there for 10 min

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath?
I offer a dish of water regularly, but I've never actually seen her drink. I spray them down in the morning every day"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember that they are a desert animal. They do NOT need to be sprayed at all, especially if you are bathing them so often. I would stop spraying them and just stick with the baths. Dont worry about drinking. I have NEVER seen my beardie drink and he is almost a year old and 17". No worries.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon?
yes and I just read that that is not a good idea so I am going to look into another tank"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Very good, if you are putting them together...make sure its 75+...if they are not doing well...I would not put them together right now

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done?
Never taken them to a vet"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
If things continue even after all the changes I mentioned above (or anyone else's better advice) I would bring them in




P.S.
Feel free to PM me if you want to know more, etc.

 

[Nasubi77]

I read what you put, here are my comments below....for others reading this PLEASE CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG, thanks!

Okay, here are your corrections: :wink:

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"What size enclosure do you have your dragon in?
50 gallons - 18"x18"x36""
-------------------------------------------------------------------
For how little they are right now this will work, if you keep them together as they get older...you will need either two tanks or one 75+ gallon tank
It's not just a matter of a bigger tank. You would also need separate basking lights, hides, feeding areas etc. It is risky business to try this, especially for a beginner to the hobby

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank?
Sand"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Most people with argue against sand when they are so little. They do have the potential of getting compacted and dying. I have had children's (very fine and chemical free) play sand for my beardie and have not had problems. If you assume they are compacted, try giving them a bath...keep them in the water for 10 min...then just keep rubbing their belly until they leave you a 'surprise'. That should help clean their system out

It's "impacted"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you use UVB lights?
Getting a Reptisun 10.0 on Friday when I get paid. Right now they only have a reptile light my roommate got at petsmart"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Make sure you get this (which im sure you already know) ASAP. Also, make sure you have a UVA light. Also, make sure the UVB light is pretty close to them, usually the closer the better...but keep it out of reach (for them)

There is not a special "UVA light" Any regular light bulb puts out UVA. You can use a household bulb or a halogen flood light for your basking light.

They need to be at least 8-12 inches away from the Reptisun 10.0 the OP is getting. Closer is NOT better when it comes to UVB! Being too close can be harmful to their health.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb?
bulb"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I had a UVB coil bulb for awhile and switched over to a fluorescent tube and he became much happier...just putting it out there...not really implying anything

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont remember the brand names, but I know I have a 20W UVB and a 150W UVA and a 100W ceramic heater

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"How old is your UVB bulb?
N/A"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
They usually say to swap the bulb out after 6 months...or if it goes out

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"How close can your dragon get to the UVB?
N/A"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said before, the closer the better...but dont make it in reach..or a potential hazard
See above, closer is NOT better.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage?
no"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, I have a 150W UVA bulb...basking bulb

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"What are the basking temps?
Around 90"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I would push for something around or higher than 105...not too high of course

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"What is the cool side temp?
80"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Your good there...make sure that at night the tank stays around 80+ also....thats where the ceramic heater comes in...no light, just heat

At night, temps can drop to 60-65 with no detriment. It is natural for them to cool down at night. You only need the CHE if it gets below that range at night.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun?
stick on"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
They say the true reading is from a digital meter, but I dont have one...Just a little reptile heater...but I double check with this non reptile digital meter I have every so often

It really is very important to monitor their temps accurately. The stick ons are highly inaccurate, and don't measure in the right place. The actual spot where your dragon basks needs to be measured for the basking temp. Temps can fluctuate due to outside weather conditions, ambient house temps, drafts, etc, so it's important to keep an eye on them, not just every once in a while.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Where exactly are you taking your basking temps?
3 inches from light"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Take the basking temperature right where your beardies would sit, and make sure the basking like is around 6" away from where they will bask

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you use a heat rock or heat pad?
No."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Good

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific.
Mostly Crickets, they wont eat fruit and veggies. Just started dusting the crickets"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, make sure they are gut loaded crickets. Glad your dusting them. Some beardies just wont eat veggies...I would try different kinds of everything...sometimes they are just really picky, try a slow/low wave in front of them

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)?
every other day"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Veggies must be every day, and crickets 2-3 times a week...I usually do veggies right away in the morning, cause he wont eat them otherwise....then I will do crickets maybe later in the day

The OP's dragons are still young enough to need crix every day. If you feed them in the evening, make sure you leave at least 2 hours for basking before lights out.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc?
I thought I was. Apparently I am not doing it correctly"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Just buy them gutloaded, and make sure you just do crickets...NO MEALWORMS

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them?
I just started dusting the crickets and I plan to do that 3 times a week"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats very very good for them, make sure it had D-3 also

Dust at least 5X a week for the OPs younger dragons

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)?
Up until the last two weeks, now they are less frequent and are much smaller"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Try bathing them like I was saying before...rub their belly, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you bath your dragon? How often?
2-3 times weekly"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Usually once a week is good, but if they are shedding then thats ok. Doesn't really hurt. Just make sure they are at least in there for 10 min

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath?
I offer a dish of water regularly, but I've never actually seen her drink. I spray them down in the morning every day"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember that they are a desert animal. They do NOT need to be sprayed at all, especially if you are bathing them so often. I would stop spraying them and just stick with the baths. Dont worry about drinking. I have NEVER seen my beardie drink and he is almost a year old and 17". No worries.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon?
yes and I just read that that is not a good idea so I am going to look into another tank"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Very good, if you are putting them together...make sure its 75+...if they are not doing well...I would not put them together right now

-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done?
Never taken them to a vet"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
If things continue even after all the changes I mentioned above (or anyone else's better advice) I would bring them in




P.S.
Feel free to PM me if you want to know more, etc.

I like your gung ho attitude and passion for beardies. Since you are also relatively new to the hobby, it's probably best for OP to ask her Q's here in the public forum so we can "fact check" before we tell her something that may be incorrect.

 

[BBandsCareTaker]

ok

 

[BBandsCareTaker]

Well then you take it from here. I am leaving the forums anyway cause im getting sick of some people

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Can you post a picture of your dragons, as well as the tank they are in as well. That would help us also.
How are things going for them today?

Tracie

 

[Tranica]

Thank you all for your help! My little friends are doing much better now!! I got them a uvb light and have since gotten them to eat fruit and veggies! Just bought another cage and as soon as I get another bublb I will be separating them I will post pics soon as well