Should we be force feeding him??

[karlys]

Hello,

My boyfriend recently took his dragon Rex to the vet because he'd been increasingly lethargic, black beard, and then stopped eating/pooping for 3-4 days. Physical exam was good and, after a fecal, the vet said he had a high concentration of bacteria and prescribed him Baytril. I went over the dose with Tracie and she said it was good. Well, so, they also gave us this omnivore food with the instructions to feed him 3 ml a day because he was completely refusing his dubias.

The first day, we got him to eat about 2.5 ml between two sessions. The next day, we got horn and wax worms to try. He ate 3 hornworms and 5 wax worms in the morning and an additional 2 hornworms in the evening on his own so we didn't make him eat the omnivore food. The next two days, all he would eat was 1 hornworm in the morning but we still didn't give him the omnivore food cuz it's stressful for the human and the lizard and we held on to the hope that he'd eat more throughout the day.

Well, today, he's not going for anything. I was going to keep offering every few hours (I'm home sick myself) but should we just be forcing the omnivore food? I can't imagine he's getting enough water. He won't drink when it's dropped on his snout.

(He's about 7 months old and 332 g. Was living under coil UVB but, when I posted about my baby beardie on here and you guys told me to get the tube, my bf also got an Arcadia tube for Rex. He's been under the new light for at least a month. Temps are good too.)

 

[AHBD]

Hi there, since he ate a large number of worms that contain a lot of hydration he is O.K. What size are the hornworms ? They can be very filling so he just isn't interested right now in any more. You might wait to see if he'll eat tomorrow, if not then offer the syringe feeding.

 

[dezismom]

Hi, Karlys,
Sorry to hear about your boyfriends beardie problems.
I am a retired wildlife rehab worker, zoo worker, and was the director of a wild animal sanctuary. I worked with many sick animals over the years, and I learned that often, with great intentions, we do too much to "help" a sick animal. It causes so much stress,they become more ill, refuse to eat, and can even die. My motto: reduce stress, and give them time to correct their own health, as they have the ability to do so. Of course, in the case of bad bacteria/ parisite infections, severe wounds, pneumonia, some human help is necessary. Force feeding any animal is extremely stressful, can cause injury to their delicate mouth, and make them dislike you. Dragons are especially sensitive in this way. A Dragon can go for many days without food in the wild. Offer him water by dropper on his snout. If he wants more, he will lick lips and open mouth. Be absolutely certain his UVB is correct, and heat sufficient. I prefer warmer temps when they are ill...80's at night or even 90's, and up to 105 at day, to jump start the metabolism. Heat from above is best, but I keep a hot pad on low under my boys vivarium, which keeps the floor nice and warm. That way, he never gets a chill. Let him just relax and be comfortable. He should have a red or blue light for heat at night so he can get proper REM sleep, or better yet, a heat lamp that is not a source of light. Do not bathe him more than once a week! he is a desert creature and will be stressed by submersion in water! My boy only gets a bath if he has poo on himself, or I feel he needs to poo and hasn't done so in a while.Good luck!

 

[EllenD]

Hello, welcome! I'm sorry your beardie is going through this...As AHBD already mentioned, both hornworms and wax worms are full of water and are very filling, much more so than say dubias or crickets. So he's not going to eat nearly as many of them as he would any other staple feeder insects, nor will he be as hungry as he usually is the morning after eating a larger meal of crickets or dubias. He's definitely getting enough hydration from a few wax worms or even one hornworm, depending on what size he is eating. I'd give him at least until tomorrow before you again syringe feed him any Oxbow, he does need to get some nutrition and hydration but just keep offering some live insects throughout the day today, every couple of hours, and if tomorrow he hasn't eaten anything then start giving him the Oxbow again...Also, whenever you give him a feeding of Oxbow, say you give him one tomorrow morning, be sure to offer him live insects a couple of hours after the Oxbow feeding before you feed him more Oxbow, because sometimes the hydration/nutrition/rise in their blood sugar will spike their appetites...

Also, out of curiosity, do you remember what bacteria they found in his stool during the fecal test that they prescribed the Baytril for? And how long was he on the Baytril? I know you said that the vet told you that the bacteria count in his stool was of a "high" count/load, but it's very rare for a reptile vet to prescribe an antibiotic for bacteria found in a fecal sample, regardless of the count/load, as most bacteria found in the stool is either normally found throughout the gastrointestinal tract in high counts, some actually are supposed to be throughout the gastrointestinal tract and actually serve a purpose being there, depending on the species of reptile or animal, or bacteria found throughout the gastrointestinal tract is "Opportunistic Bacteria", meaning that the bacteria itself causes absolutely no harm to the dragon and no signs/symptoms of illness occur because of the bacteria being present, only when the dragon has an issue or disease within their immune system or is suffering from another disease or infection that is lowering it's ability to keep the bacteria in check does the opportunistic bacteria itself cause harm to the dragon. An example of an opportunistic bacteria commonly found in the gastrointestinal tracts of bearded dragons that typically is either not treated at all, or indicates to the reptile vet that the dragon has some other infection or disease going on and instead of treating to get rid of the bacteria, the vet does blood work or cultures to diagnose the big picture, is Pseudomonas Aeruginosa. The other very important question is what originally caused you to take your beardie to the vet for a fecal in the first place? Was he acting lethargic or did he have a lack of appetite originally, which caused you to take him to the vet for a fecal?

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[karlys]

Also, out of curiosity, do you remember what bacteria they found in his stool during the fecal test that they prescribed the Baytril for? And how long was he on the Baytril?

The other very important question is what originally caused you to take your beardie to the vet for a fecal in the first place? Was he acting lethargic or did he have a lack of appetite originally, which caused you to take him to the vet for a fecal?

They didn't specify a type of bacteria and he's still on the Baytril. He started Friday and was prescribed 14 days.

And, yes, he was getting increasingly more lethargic, had a black beard several times a day, and stopped eating and pooping for 3-4 days before the vet. It had been building up for a few weeks.

 

[EllenD]

Also, out of curiosity, do you remember what bacteria they found in his stool during the fecal test that they prescribed the Baytril for? And how long was he on the Baytril?

The other very important question is what originally caused you to take your beardie to the vet for a fecal in the first place? Was he acting lethargic or did he have a lack of appetite originally, which caused you to take him to the vet for a fecal?

They didn't specify a type of bacteria and he's still on the Baytril. He started Friday and was prescribed 14 days.

And, yes, he was getting increasingly more lethargic, had a black beard several times a day, and stopped eating and pooping for 3-4 days before the vet. It had been building up for a few weeks.

That sounds more like he was impacted than he had "parasites" or a bacterial infection in his GI tract. Has he pooped yet? Does he still have a black beard?

 

[karlys]

I really don't think it's impaction. Now that he's eating again, he's pooping again and they're normal looking. He lives on paper towels and is only fed appropriately sized roaches, worms (horn, wax, and Phoenix), and greens (collard, mustard, and bok choy).
His black beard comes and goes, as does his lethargy. He'll get all fiesty and run around, head bob a little, but then he'll also spend time just laying there with his eyes closed. It's hard to tell if he feels better.

 

[EllenD]

Something just doesn't sound quite right to me, if he's now pooping normally then it's not an impaction, but the black beard coming and going along with lethargy coming and going is odd. Don't get me wrong, the Baytril itself can and will cause a lack of appetite, I'm sure that's probably the main cause of his appetite being spotty right now, nothing abnormal there, but the black beard and lethargy were going on before he started the Baytril, and I find it hard to believe that a bacterial infection in his stool would be causing a black beard...unless it was Giardia?

 

[destiny1998]

Hi. Just wondering if you have tried giving him a probiotic? I know when my girl had surgery and was put on meds her appetite went way down, beard was black and looked like she wasn't going to make it through the night I happened to order probiotics a week or so before and gave her some that night. The next day she was better and eating her critical care. Kept giving it to her once a day and noticed a big difference than without. I hope he gets better