Should I worry? Because I am

[sixxmum]

I'm not sure where to post this, so I put it in feeding and here. Mods, please remove if that is inappropriate.

Ok, a review for those who haven't read... I have 2 new dragons. They are about 7 weeks old. We've had them just under 2 weeks. One is slightly smaller than the other, but they have been eating similar amounts (actually, the last few days the smaller one - Feliz - was eating a little more). Today, they both ate some pellets for breakfast and licked some greens ( :wink: ). For lunch (around 3:00) they had 1/4 inch crickets, dusted. The bigger baby - Ponce - ate probably a dozen and the smaller one probably about 17 or so. Tonight for dinner, around 7:15, we put them in the feeding tank and Feliz just froze up and laid as flat as possible. Ponce got off to a slow start, but then he ran around the cage and ate well over two dozen crickets. I thought he was going to explode. Even after giving him a half an hour or more and attempting to tempt him by waving the crickets in front of him with feeding tongs, Feliz ate nothing at all. He would occasionally take off running toward the side of the cage (and we thought toward a cricket) but then just try to climb the wall. So... now I'm totally worked up and anxious that he hasn't eaten enough and Ponce has eaten too much.

answers to some of the usual questions:
how long have you had your beardie? not quite 2 weeks
what size enclosure is she in? 27 gallon long aquarium
is she housed alone? she is housed with her sibling and I'm currently looking for another enclosure
what uv do you have? what brand? how old is it? reptisun 5 and 2 weeks
what do you feed her? what live food exactly? 3 times a day - morning pellets, afternoon and evening 1/4 inch crickets, freely available salad all day
what are your temperatures? 105-110 on the basking rock, and today the bottom of the cool side is probably about 75 but they are mostly above that where it's around 80-85 (it's quite chilly out)
what kind of thermometer are you using to measure their temperatures with? digital with probe
does she eat greens at all? a little, but not often
do you dust her live food? if so what supplements are you using and what brands? yes, now that she has been eating more we've been doing it about 5x per week with Reptical calcium plus Vit D

 

[Ethelia]

Hello there,

Do you feed the dragons together or seperately?
Holly

 

[sixxmum]

Usually together, but last night after Feliz wasn't eating, we removed Ponce to give her a chance to just do her own thing. It didn't help I'm still waiting to see if she'll eat some pellets this morning (she's only been up about 90 minutes, so I figured a few more before breakfast)

 

[gulfbrzdawn]

Hello,

I responded to your post in the feeding forum. I had mentioned them eating separately also. I still believe it may be an issue with them being housed together. Your larger bd may dominating the other smaller one,which would cause stress and interfere with the little ones eating habits.

Dawn

 

[Ethelia]

Yup, in that case it definatly sounds like dominance issues.

The general belief on this matter is that beardies are solitary and territorial creatures and so should always be housed alone.
It drives us crazy that pet stores and local breeders often insist on it being fine.

Males + females especially shouldnt be housed together because they can overbreed.

Furthermore when beardies are housed together one usually becomes dominant causing the other beardie to not grow properly due to stress, which sounds exactly like what has happened here.
I cannot tell you the amount of times we have read about one beardie not eating well, we advise the owner to seperate and then within a week we get replies saying how much better their dragon is doing.

Also beardies can and do attack eachother, unfortunatly dragons are not like dogs, who can be taught about naughty aggressive behaviour. They can live in apparent harmony for months and then one day snap. Once it has happened once, it will happen again and again.
Dragons will think nothing of nipping off a chunk or tail/toe in order to defend their basking spot, its just in their nature.

I dont mean to scare or scold you, but I want you to appriciate what can happen:
In my time keeping dragons I have rescued two dragons who were living in a viv with other dragons.
Dexter was small for her age and was missing a bit of her tail, most of her right arm, most of her right foot and alot of her toes.

Ruben had his leg and arms ripped off at the joints by his clutchmates.

There are rare cases where dragons show no signs of agression towards eachother, and there isnt too much bullying but it is a risk that is simply not worth taking.

I would suggest you separate your beardies with a cardboard screen for now until you can figure out a perminant solution.
Your dragons will lead much happier healthier lives apart.

 

[sixxmum]

Thanks. I do understand about the separating them and I swear that I'm working on it and have some items ordered to help with that. I'll see about separating them with a divider for now. It just seems so odd that it happened so suddenly!

 

[sixxmum]

I separated them today (late morning). I got them both to eat in the a.m. (crix) and early afternoon (crix), but when I tried to feed them again just now they wouldn't eat at all. The little one, Feliz, was flattening himself to the bottom of the feeding tank and actually seeming to try to dig down into it. It makes me so sad. Do you think it will just take some time after getting into this new arrangement for them to calm down?

 

[Ethelia]

Most dragons hate change and will resist it to begin with.
Please dont mistake it for them missing eachother.
It could take a couple of weeks when they are both in their new homes to sell down completely.
The flattening and digging may be because he is spooked at his new surroundings.
Try adding a hide or a blanket in his tank and see if it makes him feel more secure.

Holly

 

[sixxmum]

Thanks, Holly. I'm holding strong on the not housing them together. As cute as it is, I do understand that it's not a good idea. The breeder (just a hobbyist) that I got them from who had recommended housing them together is even rethinking it as she has had 2 babies lose an arm and 1 lose the tip of his tail this last week

 

[Ethelia]

Thats great. Hopefully you shall see some improvement soon.
Its always scarey when our babies are unwell.

I just comes down to a poor understanding really, there are plenty of other species of reptile that get alone fine together, so people tend to believe the same holds true for dragons. All the store workers in my city also tell me Im wrong and that they enjoy company. Badly informed store workers and 'reptile specialists' so often sell dangerous sub-par lighting and dont arm people with the right information. Its dreadfully upsetting.
Unfortunatly most people tend only learn from horrible personal experience.

Im glad we've avoided it with your two little monsters