She threw up...Is she too thin?

[Mathilda26]

I just got my beardie late in afternoon on September 30th. She's two years old and had a sub par start. She was kept in a 20 gallon her whole life with nothing in it except news paper and a food dish. Her lighting was sub par as was her diet. She was fed lettuce and the occasional cricket according to her previous owners. I have no idea if she was supplemented or how often her compact uvb was changed, but it was blown when I picked her up along with her heat lamp.

I feel like she is smaller than than average 2 year old, so maybe stunted growth? It could just be that I've never actually seen an adult in person and just go based on pictures.

When I got her home I just fed her some super worms as her owners had fed her a salad before I picked her up and I didn't want to over load her. She pooped and was fine.

The next day she had her salad (turnip and collard greens with kale) and some more supers at noon. She pooped and was fine.

This afternoon I went to feed her and she wasn't interested so I decided to wait. Came back and she had pooped, but also had thrown up the greens and worms from yesterday. She seemed fine otherwise.

I decided to soak her for the first time after that, and she drank a lot. She's had a water bowl since I got her and I also had been dripping water on her nose until she's finished. I'm going soak her daily now, though.

I'm thinking it's her temps needing to be higher. Currently her cool side is 77, warm 86, basking 93-95. I bought a higher wattage basking bulb this evening and will be installing it tomorrow since her lights are off for the night.

I'm waiting for some pheonix worms and horn worms to come in the mail to help fatten her up, too. I'm also curious if it could have been the sudden dietary changes? Her being possibly dehydrated? Here's some pictures of her, I'd love to hear opinions!
(She does have a vet appointment scheduled, but it's not for another week)

These pictures were after the vomiting episode.

Soaking and having a drink.

See how her skin is wrinkled?

Didn't like my phone in her face, poor thing

 

[destiny1998]

Hi. She's a cutie! I'd change her uvb light to a reptisun 10.0 tube t5. Also are you dusting her feeders with calcium. Looks like she could have a little mud due to lack of calcium and improper uvb lighting. Also how are you taking the temps?

 

[Mathilda26]

Hi. She's a cutie! I'd change her uvb light to a reptisun 10.0 tube t5. Also are you dusting her feeders with calcium. Looks like she could have a little mud due to lack of calcium and improper uvb lighting. Also how are you taking the temps?

I've been dusting, yes! I also sprinkled her salad with her vitamins, which is the only time I've given the vitamins so far.
The ambient temps are taken with Acurite thermometers and then with a temp gun on the basking spot.

With the reptisun T5, is it ok to have it in the enclosure that close to her? I got the T8 due to lack of vertical space and not wanting it to be dangerous for her should she get closer.

 

[destiny1998]

Hi. The t5 can just stay on top of the screen as it's stronger than the t8.

 

[AHBD]

Hi there, your new girl is a real cutie, poor thing has barely gotten by with the previous neglect but thankfully doesn't seem like there are any extreme health issues aside from being small + thin. Your new heat bulb should help, the basking spot needs to be about 100-105 for an adult so they can digest their food properly. Phoenix + hornworms will be good for her, a few supers here + there but not too many at once. Hopefully she'll have a happy,healthy life with you.

 

[Mathilda26]

Thanks everyone!! With her new basking bulb, her appetite is back and she happily ate her salad this morning and basked. Her basking area is 102 and she's loving it! Sits there with her little eyes closed and looks so pleased. I've ordered the T5 and fixture also

 

[EllenD]

She should do much better with the correct temperature gradient and a 10.0 T5HO UVB tube. She's a bit stunted and thin, and has some MBD, but not nearly as much as most do that come from her background, she actually looks quite good for her situation. Easy on the superworms, I have a year and 2 month old rescue boy I've had since he was 7 months old, he had no UVB light at all ever, temps in the 85-90 range, and he's lucky as well, a tad larger than your girl but with severe MBD causing partial paralysis of his back legs. He's 500% better after being here for 5+ months, but he can't handle superworms very well. He eats like a pig, both BSFL and all types of salad and squash, green beans (loves green beans), and is a sweetheart, but he just recently stopped flipping over onto his back on flat ground. Still can't climb very well, we're getting better slowly though. So your girl is doing great considering...Thanks for taking her in and giving her a loving home.

 

[Mathilda26]

She should do much better with the correct temperature gradient and a 10.0 T5HO UVB tube. She's a bit stunted and thin, and has some MBD, but not nearly as much as most do that come from her background, she actually looks quite good for her situation. Easy on the superworms, I have a year and 2 month old rescue boy I've had since he was 7 months old, he had no UVB light at all ever, temps in the 85-90 range, and he's lucky as well, a tad larger than your girl but with severe MBD causing partial paralysis of his back legs. He's 500% better after being here for 5+ months, but he can't handle superworms very well. He eats like a pig, both BSFL and all types of salad and squash, green beans (loves green beans), and is a sweetheart, but he just recently stopped flipping over onto his back on flat ground. Still can't climb very well, we're getting better slowly though. So your girl is doing great considering...Thanks for taking her in and giving her a loving home.

Oh that's so sad I'm glad he's doing so much better!!
I took her in expecting her to be really bad off, but was pleased she's so well. She's such a sweetheart and so gentle.
I am curious where you see her MBD. I'm new to all this and I'm only use to seeing the severe cases. I know her coloring is a bit off since she's supposed to be a citrus, but I'm not sure what off color means exactly. I'm having a full health panel done at her appointment just to cover anything that could be going on.
But yes, since her getting sick I've been giving her only a few super worms and will mainly be giving the Phoenix worms as her staple. She's good with her greens though!

 

[EllenD]

Well, anytime a beardie is stunted in growth and it's known that they had inadequate or no UVB/UVA lighting, you can assume some bone density issues, which if you get a regular flat x-ray done at her appointment it will show the severity of the MBD. As far as just looking at her, it's not bad at all, again she's stunted for her age, and she's got a bit of her jaw jutting out, her head has a bit of the growth deformity you see with MBD, but not nearly as bad as some, if you ever see a beardie that has a huge underbite and misshapen head/face, that's severe MBD...Another sign is if she often folds her front legs underneath herself, crossing them, or if her spine shows any curves or lumps, which I don't think she has any. So hopefully her bone density isn't that weak and she has no permanent disabilities from it like my boy Nix. He's doing very well, but we're not ever going to reverse his partial paralysis in his back legs or his front legs. All we can do is get his bone density up to normal and strengthen the rest of him to try and compensate for the deformities...But your girl isn't nearly that bad, or bad at all really besides the stunted growth..

 

[AHBD]

I meant to get back to this yesterday but got caught up with other things. She doesn't really have any outward appearance of MBD and as stated she's not in bad condition, so you don't think of it as MBD in the sense that people are concerned that their dragon is crippled in any way. She can do just fine. If she eats greens and her insects [ dusted with a good supplement like Repashy calcium + ] she's going to get plenty of nutrients.

I would wait at least a month before taking her to the vet so she settles in + has a chance to get on a good eating schedule, gaining + having regular poos. Is your vet a real reptile vet because if not they may over or under treat her + do more harm than good. No need to bother with Xrays, many vets can't tell anything about such a small animals bones [ which density can vary for a number of reasons ] unless there's an obvious break which , if she has one would cause her to limp or will have been already healed on it's own.

For now, good food ,supplements and lighting will do her good and get her reasonably healthy. But I'd wait a bit before taking her in.

 

[EllenD]

I'll respectfully disagree about getting a flat x-ray done, it's normal practice if getting a first-time wellness exam anyway, and in addition to showing her bone density (assuming your vet won't be able to read a bearded dragon x-ray before even meeting them isn't very optimistic ?), the x-ray will also show any masses or abnormal growths, enlarged liver, etc. So if you're having a baseline wellness exam done, an x-ray is appropriate for a number of reasons, and I don't see a reason to purposely not get it done at all, in fact, since you have no idea what really went on with her sub-par prior living conditions I'd want to compile all the information about her overall health as I could...I mean, what if she has a enlarged liver due to a horrible prior diet or some other factor related to her prior life? For the small expense of a simple, noninvasive flat x-ray, you can find this out early and treat accordingly...Just makes good sense...

 

[AHBD]

Fair enough Ellen, I can understand your reasoning. We all need Dr.'s dentists, our pets need vets at times. I just like to warn people about what can happen as we see so often [ and I've seen many times over the years since I've been on this website ] where vets misdiagnose and over treat beardies to their detriment. The first thing to be sure of is a vet's experience with lizards , of course esp. with beardies. Even some vets that are recommended do damage at times. I can remember some that really stand out....a dragon that had his entire tail amputated so that his hemipenes were severed. [ You'd cry if you saw the pics ] A dragon that was gravid, I told the poster that she was acting like she was ready to lay eggs . The poster [ I think the username was Discojan or something similar ] took her to the vet who's credentials she posted here, highly recommended vet at a big city zoo who told her there were no eggs. The dragon laid them the next day. And many other stories here.

I'm not against vets, but sometimes less visits are better, and less procedures are better. So if + when you do go to a vet, be sure to ask questions, not in a rude demanding way but just like we would about our own treatment, why things are being done, side effects etc. Try to stay with the dragon at all times and don't let them keep the dragon for anything except severe conditions. Stress itself from staying at a clinic can cause a lot of harm.

 

[Mathilda26]

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply.

Well, she's doing beautifully! She hasn't gotten sick again and has a voracious appetite still. She's loving the higher temps.

I'm still patiently waiting for her other feeders (should be in on the 10th) so I've been going easy on the supers as I don't want to over do it. How many do you think would be safe for her a day until her Phoenix worms get in?

My thinking was along those same lines as far as the bet goes. With her having sub par care for so long, I was worried about internal issues going on.

 

[AHBD]

That;s great that she's eating + doing well ! That's what you want to see. So are supers the only feeder right now ? If so, just give her a few in the early part of the day + a few more before 6:00 -7:00 p.m. You want to be sure she has time in the heat to digest them. Try to use freshly shed ones . Can you post a pic of the size of the supers ? And I still feel it's best to wait until she's put on a bit of weight and settled in before a vet visit. Stress can elevate levels of parasites for a while when a beardie goes to a new environment so you want her to settle in well before getting a fecal test done to show a more accurate number if parasites are present.

 

[Mathilda26]

That;s great that she's eating + doing well ! That's what you want to see. So are supers the only feeder right now ? If so, just give her a few in the early part of the day + a few more before 6:00 -7:00 p.m. You want to be sure she has time in the heat to digest them. Try to use freshly shed ones . Can you post a pic of the size of the supers ? And I still feel it's best to wait until she's put on a bit of weight and settled in before a vet visit. Stress can elevate levels of parasites for a while when a beardie goes to a new environment so you want her to settle in well before getting a fecal test done to show a more accurate number if parasites are present.

Yep, just the supers until the delivery comes. I ordered at a bad time, right before the weekend and a holiday, so I grabbed them for in the mean time. Then I'll be using the Phoenix as the staple with the horn worms as a treat and dubias once I get a colony going.

These are the ones I picked up. And here is her head so you can get a rough idea of the size. I try to pick out the lighter smaller ones. I haven't seen any undigested bits in her poo, and she's going every day in her bath. And she eats every bit of her salad.

She wasn't pleased with the "hat" lol

I'll also call and postpone her appointment! I wasn't aware of that with the parasites. Since her health seems fine other than being a bit thin, I'm not terribly concerned