Scared it might be ADV please help!!! (Resolved! Thanks!)

[Dragonism]

EDIT: 8/27/2016 Jupiter has recovered from his ordeal. He started having bouts of thrashing and spazzing, which also included his head arching up and he couldn't control himself. After some time out in the sun, a vet appointment and a lot of patience, he has recovered. It appeared to be a case of MBD setting in. I'd like to thank everyone who helped me out with him; I was really scared I wouldn't be able to help him at all. He is alive and well now. This whole situation really taught me a lot about bearded dragons; keep in mind that MBD and other conditions can just happen very suddenly, and you have to act fast! If you'd like to see pictures or videos of his improvement, please feel free to browse the thread~

I originally posted in the behavior forum, but I was told to post here since it sounded more serious. So I'll just type everything thats going on.

Not sure what my little guy Jupiter is doing. But he recently started doing this thing where if I try to pick him up or approach him, he leans back real far and then starts bobbing his head really hard and fast with his beard blackened. Then he stops abruptly and waves his arms at me. Now I know from research that males beardies do this and its a dominance display, but I have no other beardies, just him. That and, I'm honestly kind of scared that he might be seizing or something because my last beardie's head went back in a similar fashion before she passed away. I know I might just be waaay over worrying, so I'd really love to know whats up with my boy and make sure that this is completely normal. I'm also 100% sure he's male.

His basking temps are 108, he is on papertowel substrate, he has a Zilla 18-Inch Desert 50 UVB T8 fluorescent bulb light mounted on top of the tank which I bought back in February I think. He last ate 2 days ago (he had 3 hornworms and a few dubia so he's still a bit full), his last poop was this morning and it was small but looked normal (he pooped A LOT yesterday). I calcium dust every other day. He likes to play with the papertowels and he has an exo terra mossy background that he can climb and snuggle against. Also he is about 1 year old; give or take a couple months. Here is a picture of him and his setup.

Aside from all of that, he's still pretty alert and active. He's not interested in eating though, but I'm not too worried. But he's doing the arm waving thing alot (he started doing it again as I typed this). I just wanna make sure I don't do anything to screw up with him. :c If it helps, only two sides of his tank are covered; the front and the right side aren't so that I can obviously peer into his tank. I'm not sure if he's reacting to his reflection or if he just doesn't like me lol. When I had my previous beardie, she never had a problem with the tank being partially covered. Jupiter has been like this since about yesterday after feeding him the other day. He's just been basking, beard has been black/grey but overall he's alert. He gapes alot too but I know he's just regulating his body temperature. When I take him out, he starts looking up really hard before observing normally. Idk whats up with the guy.

EDIT 1: I should also mention that he's seems a little disoriented before he starts the "bobbing" thing, which is whats scaring me and making me think something's wrong. Like he's roughly jerking his head back and disorienting himself before righting himself and start waving/bobbing. Kind of like he's throwing himself back/arching himself. Is that normal? I've only had him for several days so it could be that he's still not used to his environment. I noticed that in the morning he keeps on trying to "escape" through the top of the screen on the tank. I figured from his perspective it looks like he can get through but can't. I feel like because he kept doing this it might have disoriented him? Idk. This behavior didn't start until yesterday.

EDIT 2: I decided to take him out of his tank for a while. He was acting normal and looking around curiously. However, when I picked him up or pet him, his head went back again and he flopped all over the place before righting himself. I did some more research and... I think maybe he might have ADV or something. I'm crying right now. I JUST lost a beardie that was close to me. And now I'm starting over only to realize that I might be losing another one. Is there ANYTHING I can do? I don't want to say for sure he has it but... I'm scared and crying. Please help me. HE was acting just fine before and now this...

He was kind of acting weak at first and didn't want to move from the bottom of his tank, but then he got back up and basked. But then I heard him slip and looked to check on him. He was acting all discombobulated, however, he seems to be fine. He's alot more observant too. I'm REALLY hoping and praying that it isn't ADV. I'm going to try getting him to a vet tomorrow. Someone messaged me saying that it could also be MBD but he gets PLENTY of calcium. Right now, I'd really like if someone could just calm my nerves and tell some things I could do.

EDIT: Heres some videos of his behavior: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWLMJYDZG-U&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsiXuHTKnuo&feature=youtu.be

 

[AHBD]

Hi there, those are not really ADV symptoms. Some beardies can have inner ear infections that causes dizzy spells. When you take him to the vet, be SURE they have experience with beardies, otherwise you may waste your money and end up with more problems. Please ask , because it's very common for mistaken diagnosis to be given.

He looks pretty healthy but you might want to put the temp. down ASAP, his basking should be 100, not 108.

 

[Dragonism]

Hi there, those are not really ADV symptoms. Some beardies can have inner ear infections that causes dizzy spells. When you take him to the vet, be SURE they have experience with beardies, otherwise you may waste your money and end up with more problems. Please ask , because it's very common for mistaken diagnosis to be given.

He looks pretty healthy but you might want to put the temp. down ASAP, his basking should be 100, not 108.

An ear infection can cause all of this?? Alright. I also called the vet place and asked if they had experience with bearded dragons and they said they do. But I'm going to DOUBLE CHECK once I get there that the person who sees him knows what they're doing. Should I mention that it might be an ear infection? Also, I posted two videos of his behavior in the first post. Not sure if you saw the second but just in case here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsiXuHTKnuo

And the temp is really too high for him? I thought that about between 110 and 105 was the prime temperature for them. I'm going to change the light bulb right away!

 

[AHBD]

O.K, I didn't see the video that you added. It IS possible that those are neurological symptoms from ADV, the first thing to do is get him tested for it ASAP. One of the mods. here can do it for you [ Drache613 ] if your vet isn't familiar with it. All my best wishes go out to you !

 

[Dragonism]

Thank you very much. I'm really hoping it isn't ADV. Its so strange that these symptoms popped up so suddenly after only having him for a week. The manager said he was healthy and never this discombobulated. *sigh* Its like I'm not meant to have pets.

 

[AHBD]

You're welcome....and don't feel you're not meant to have pets, it's just a couple of unfortunate experiences. Get him looked at + go from there. I also wanted to ask what his prior care was like if you've just had him for a week. And check the Zilla fixture to see if there's a plastic shield covering the uvb bulb , [ if you haven't already ] if so take it off, it blocks the uvb.

By the way, how do you hydrate him ? Has he been soaked, if so did he go underwater at all or possibly get water in his ear ? For a drink, you might give water with a syringe, eyedropper or spray bottle on his snout.

 

[Dragonism]

You're welcome....and don't feel you're not meant to have pets, it's just a couple of unfortunate experiences. Get him looked at + go from there. I also wanted to ask what his prior care was like if you've just had him for a week. And check the Zilla fixture to see if there's a plastic shield covering the uvb bulb , [ if you haven't already ] if so take it off, it blocks the uvb.

By the way, how do you hydrate him ? Has he been soaked, if so did he go underwater at all or possibly get water in his ear ? For a drink, you might give water with a syringe, eyedropper or spray bottle on his snout.

No plastic covering the UVB so thats good. And yes I soak him daily, however I have noticed he wont drink when I do. I just figure he isn't thirsty but I let him soak for about 10 minutes. He doesn't go under the water but I do dribble water over his head to encourage him to drink so that possibly might be it if its an infection. His prior care was garbage. According to the store owner, his previous owner never handled him and fed him pinkie mice. I'm unsure of what his set up was like. He stayed at the store with the manager for a month and a half and I asked the manager questions about his health. She said he was in great health, she never noticed anything with him and he eats really well. Which is why I'm trying to figure out why his health has deteriorated like this over night. I just took him out of his tank to hold and console him and immediately he started shaking his head side to side very raggedly like he didn't want me to touch him. And now he's having these 'episodes' where he thrashes around violently. I'm trying my best to make him comfortable but *sigh* yeah. Tomorrow needs to get here faster.

 

[AHBD]

He probably did not have much handling so it's best to keep it at a minimum. Contrary to what we might think, beardies actually don't like us touching the top of their head. They have a sensory organ on the top [ Google " third eye " in lizards or parietal eye ]. Skip baths except for 1-2X a week and offer oral hydration.

 

[Dragonism]

He probably did not have much handling so it's best to keep it at a minimum. Contrary to what we might think, beardies actually don't like us touching the top of their head. They have a sensory organ on the top [ Google " third eye " in lizards or parietal eye ]. Skip baths except for 1-2X a week and offer oral hydration.

Alright I'll do that. Upon a second inspection, I decided to wrap him in a towel and cuddle him a bit. I thought maybe I heard a faint crackle noise and also his breath is very smelly. Possibly an RI if nothing else? I also noticed that if I set him on the floor, he immediately stops flipping out.

 

[AHBD]

More likely that he's just stressed and breathing heavy. And I just thought about this, that since he's wobbly you might take out the taller basking platforms or lay them on their sides to make them lower. I know this is really stressful for you, I'm sorry that you're going through this.

 

[Dragonism]

More likely that he's just stressed and breathing heavy. And I just thought about this, that since he's wobbly you might take out the taller basking platforms or lay them on their sides to make them lower. I know this is really stressful for you, I'm sorry that you're going through this.

Alright I'll try that. And yeah. This is really stressing me out. I'm trying to coax him to sleep at least so that both of our minds can be put at ease until tomorrow. I'm trying not to have too many bad thoughts. Thank you for your help and replies. I'll update again if anything changes.

 

[AHBD]

And definitely get the temp. down, even if you have to rig the light up off the screen until you can get a slightly lower watt bulb.

 

[AHBD]

Here's an older thread about a small dragon that had ear infection successfully treated. Not that there's any certainty that is what your guy has, but at least you can be familiar with this as a possibility.
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=120228

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Poor guy, I agree though, it looks more like possible calcium issues, or as suggested an inner ear infection.
How far is the Zilla T50 from him? Personally, I would change the light to either a Reptisun 10 tube bulb or an Arcadia D3 12% either one. I think that they are better than the Zilla bulbs. He may not be getting adequate UVB exposure which could cause him to have poor calcium absorption.
Something has caused some stress for him, which may be contributing to a secondary infection such as a respiratory infection, etc.
If your vet doesn't test for Adeno, let me know. You can sign up on my site to test & it is very reasonable.

Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[Dragonism]

Hello,

Poor guy, I agree though, it looks more like possible calcium issues, or as suggested an inner ear infection.
How far is the Zilla T50 from him? Personally, I would change the light to either a Reptisun 10 tube bulb or an Arcadia D3 12% either one. I think that they are better than the Zilla bulbs. He may not be getting adequate UVB exposure which could cause him to have poor calcium absorption.
Something has caused some stress for him, which may be contributing to a secondary infection such as a respiratory infection, etc.
If your vet doesn't test for Adeno, let me know. You can sign up on my site to test & it is very reasonable.

Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

Yeah I'm actually about to get rid of that tube and get a reptisun. And he's been pretty stressed and extremely nervous about everything since I've had him so it makes sense that a problem would pop up.

And ugh well, last night was terrible for both of us. For like 3 or 5 minutes he would stop jerking around and then start back up again. It was obvious that whatever was going on was really excruciating for him. I stayed with him all night until he finally fell asleep. He pretty much buried his head between two pillows and didn't move (not even sure how he was able to breathe) but I checked on him like every 20 minutes until I went to sleep.

This morning when I woke him up to put him his tank and basked, he had another jerking session but thankfully not as bad as last night. I don't want to speak too soon though. Right now for the most part he's calmed down. Seems to be triggered when I pick him up or touch him. I scheduled him a vet appointment for 3 today. So we'll see how that goes. Hopefully I wont have to pay an arm and a leg to get him treated and figure out whats wrong. I'm still hoping it isn't ADV. But we'll see. I can see how it would be an ear infection because I bathed him every morning.

Edit: He's having a few head tremors, like his head is shivering, but other than that he seems to be fine and no black beard. I don't think he's going to touch his food today though.