sand rant

[Critter]

That's good to know, Critter. Everyone seems to say something different on what beardies live on in the wild... But just wondering, aren't there areas of hard-packed clay-like earth and rocks that they live on as well? I've seen pictures of wild beardies in areas like that as well. I've never been to Australia, but I would LOVE to go there one day!

Yeah, I can guarantee you that natural Australian sand is much different than calcium sand or silica sand. There is also a HUGE different between living in sand in the wild, and living in sand in a small glass box.

Okay, yet again I never ONCE said Bearded Dragons should live in sand in captivity. In fact I pointed out several times that they shouldn't... just to clear that up. A few of you seem to think I am defending sand which is not what I am doing.

And yes Jess, Bearded Dragons are actually pretty far spread in Aus according to what I have read. Some live in the really loose sandy deserts and others live in areas of hardened clay/dirt etc. Some of them even live in open woodlands of Australia where there is no sand at all.

And I have no doubt that the sand you can buy in store is different to the sand they live in. For one thing I have a feeling that sand may be dyed to look the colour deep red, rather than being that colour naturally. Because of that Beardies in the sand seem to get dyed colours on their tail and feet.

Also, I'm glad you want to visit Australia one day, I love it here are we have a really awesome array of native plants and animals. Our native snake and lizard collection is especially impressive (to me anyway). Although you have to be careful because pretty much anything here can harm you in some way, even the really cute looking animals.

 

[SoleSky]

This is all theory I'm not saying who is right or wrong personally I don't use sand and I don't recommend it-
Evolutionarily, if what Critter is saying is true, it wouldn't make sense for beardies to live on sand if they can only survive for a short period of time. Since they die out so quickly in sand then the population should be rising in the clay areas and dying in the sand ones. If sand was affecting them in their natural environment then the survival rate would be much smaller on sand as apposed to clay. I think it would be cool to try and see the population of bearded dragons in different areas over the desert. I.E sand and clay, because maybe something was bred out of bearded dragons in captivity making it difficult to digest sand, or quite possibly the consistency of the sand is much different than what we are used to in the states, or what the petstores manage to sell. Maybe since breeders began breeding on tile or some other type of non-loose substrate, the bearded dragons slowly began to lose the ability to digest more difficult things, size wise, substrate wise and consistency wise, meal worms is an example. I am sure that food is more scarce in the desert as well so sometimes beardies have to eat more exotic and dangerous foods. Honestly I can't answer these questions because of my limited knowledge on the subject but being the scientific type person that I am these are the conclusions that I drew.

 

[SoleSky]

-Double posted-

 

[Critter]

Evolutionarily, if what Critter is saying is true, it wouldn't make sense for beardies to live on sand if they can only survive for a short period of time. Since they die out so quickly in sand then the population should be rising in the clay areas and dying in the sand ones.

I actually don't have any solid evidence at all on a Beardies lifeline whether they live on sand, on hard soil or even in woodlands. I once read a poster in another forum say that Beardies in the wild live 2-3 years. That poster only said "in the wild" and did not specify as to where or what terrain those Dragons might be living in. The poster also didn't mention where she got that information from, so who knows. It is interesting though, something that should be researched. I have actually been shocked by how little information there is on Bearded Dragons in the wild living in their natural habitats. You can scour the internet and books but most information it seems is about how to care for captive Beardies, and not their natural lives out there in the deserts and woodlands. I'm sure there is some research I just haven't found yet and I am going to continue to look as hard as I can. But basically so far I have come up with very few solid facts about wild Beardies, including the life spans in different environments.

 

[Critter]

Actually, on that note here is something I just found on a site.

"Bearded Dragons have a natural life expectancy from between 5 and 10 years. Of course, natural predation and other environmental factors severely limit their life span in some cases. In an ideal, proper, and clean captive environment, Bearded Dragons can reach the 10 year mark."

So that's 5-10 years naturally, but I'm still having trouble finding a number just for wild ones and not captive ones as well.

 

[Slave2Scarlett]

And here we are once again arguing about sand...lol :lol:

 

[NightmareDisco]

Hey guys, I don't want bloodshed over this lol. My point was that companies who know that sand is not an ideal substrate should stop saying that it is and assisting in the killing of a beardie belonging to someone who doesn't know better. If it wasn't there, they couldn't buy it.

 

[Slave2Scarlett]

Hey guys, I don't want bloodshed over this lol. My point was that companies who know that sand is not an ideal substrate should stop saying that it is and assisting in the killing of a beardie belonging to someone who doesn't know better. If it wasn't there, they couldn't buy it.

AGREED 100%

 

[Jess]

Hey guys, I don't want bloodshed over this lol. My point was that companies who know that sand is not an ideal substrate should stop saying that it is and assisting in the killing of a beardie belonging to someone who doesn't know better. If it wasn't there, they couldn't buy it.

But then there is always play sand and stuff at hardware stores... :roll: I bet some of the really pro-sand people would create a black market for calcium sand, LOL!

@Critter: I probably wouldn't last a week is Aus, haha! I'd be like: "OMG, its SOOOOO cu-" *dies*

It looks like the "arguments" in this thread were more of a misunderstanding, BTW.

 

[Slave2Scarlett]

Yeah we all pretty much agree sand is a bad thing... SAND IS EVIL

 

[Critter]

And here we are once again arguing about sand...lol :lol:

Before you typed this no one was arguing. I don't know why people keep jumping to the conclusion that we were arguing. We were having an intellectual conversation of Bearded Dragon research and there wasn't a hint of an argument at all.

I would ask you too actually READ through a conversation before you start wrongly accusing people of arguing.

 

[Slave2Scarlett]

And here we are once again arguing about sand...lol :lol:

Before you typed this no one was arguing. I don't know why people keep jumping to the conclusion that we were arguing. We were having an intellectual conversation of Bearded Dragon research and there wasn't a hint of an argument at all.

I would ask you too actually READ through a conversation before you start wrongly accusing people of arguing.

I know exactly what was said... and I wasn't accusing anyone... It was actually supposed to be more of a "light hearted comment" hense the :lol: @ the end

 

[Critter]

Hmm maybe it's just different where I come from but wrongly accusing people of arguing is not exactly a light-hearted comment.

 

[volvotech]

It also doesn't mean that the ones in the wild don't die of impaction.

That's an argument I've made several times too. My friend asked me, based on my bearded dragons' care, what happens when they live in the wild? Well, some die. Obviously we try our best to keep ours alive, whether for moral of financial reasons. In the wild, however, natural selection takes over.

 

[RowenJade]

Even puttnig impaction aside....

Early humans didn't have toilets or Clorox wipes, but they also had more space to poo...and so do the lizards in the wild. Confining them to a small area to poop wherever they want in, is like living in a giant litterbox. It's disgusting. It's been said before, but not on this thread. If you have sand in your tank you can end up with coccidia pin worms, and bacterial or fungus infections I believe. It's just overall not sanitary at all.

If you have a disposable substrate like non adhesive shelf liner, or tile that is sealed (or removable) it is easy to completely disinfect the cage weekly.