Ruby Waxworm - out of ideas...

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Liliwen

Member
Hi all... I am at my wits end with Ruby, no idea what to do or where to go next. She is a female (90% sure) and is approximately 16 months old. We have been owned by her since she was 5 months old.

She lives in a 40 gallon wooden vivarium with glass doors, she has 3 levels she can access, we use (and change every 6 months) a Repti-Glo 10.0, 36 inch and 30 watt, plus a 2.0 strip also Repti-Glo and a 100w basking lamp which is situated on the outside roof with a mesh protector, so it is in her ceiling. She has a bleached log on the middle shelf which is directly under the spot, this temp measures 38c. Elsewhere she has a nice covered area under her first floor where she likes to sleep at night, this is a calci-sandy area and she often digs a nest for herself. She has a sloping slate that she can use to get to first and second floors. her substrate has been calci-sand but we have now gone for slate as have been scared about impaction even though calci-sand is 'recommended' by the advisors but we now realise that this is not in her best interests, have taken most, but not all away.

So, Ruby, up to December 2013, was an active, cheeky, manipulative little soul who shed frequently and ate anything that was not salad! She grew rapidly and although we tried everything, the only worry we had was the lack of appetitie for greens. I give her apple, carrot, red pepper, rocket, spring greens (we live in the UK), every day, fresh and lovingly prepared. Apart from a rare piece of apple, she has never eaten any of it.

Then she went to sleep (early jan). Not completely, her live food intake went from lots, to just 3 or 4 locusts and maybe a phoenix worm or two a day, then that got less and became every 2 days or so. She would hide and sleep, wake and bask but was very dozy. One could almost imagine she had dragon narcolepsy...

So, while scary, we tried not to worry unduly, her poops were normal when she did them, smaller due to reduced food of course but absolutely fine. She never ever drinks, but we bath her not every week but when she looks like she needs it, she is not keen on bathing either!

But the weeks kept going by. She looked fine, alert and bright eyed when awake and taking just enough food to keep her going but still sleeping more than waking even by April. She has been acting weird lately too, nervy looking and really not enjoying any contact with me at all, not that she has ever taken that well to being handled and snuggled! We have kept on trying to interact with her but now she is just not interested at all, will not even take food unless it is a wax worm...she will, as always, do anything for one of them. I know they are a treat only! Her poops are normal although for one or 2 days last week they were fluidy, more like water but then went back to normal.

Finally, we took her to the vet last week. The specialist was away but the vet we saw could not see any signs of impaction, no mouth issues, no obvious signs of any illness, she stands up on all 4 legs and is very alert if very nervy looking

We get to see the specialist on Wednesday. No idea what she will suggest but we are either doing something monumentally wrong while although she looks pretty good she has not grown for almost 5 months now (she cannot have been in semi brumation that long?) she is plumpish, certainly not wasted and hydrated (I have upped the baths a bit and adding sugar etc) but she is just so dammed sad and sleepy and not interested. We wondered if her UV tube was duff and changed it 2 weeks ago, no difference.

She goes for days now eating nothing at all. This morning though, she woke up as normal, basked for a bit then took herself to an unusual spot under the slope of her slate and started to dig. This went on for an hour, unusual this time of day, normally a night time thing.

Is this dragon going to lay infertile eggs I now wonder? The vet last week suggested she may have reached sexual maturity and the hormones are making her weird. That would kind of make sense but 5 months of a sleepy dragon who seems to get no joy out of life is filling me with despair.

Can anyone offer any suggestions? Sorry for the babble, really at a loss now :cry:
 

destiny1998

Extreme Poster
Photo Comp Winner
Hi. It might be the uvb. Most people on here use the reptisun10.0 Tube or Arcadia 12% mouned in the tank. I know some people on here have had problems with the repti glo.
 

Liliwen

Member
Original Poster
destiny1998":2tu8xeu9 said:
Hi. It might be the uvb. Most people on here use the reptisun10.0 Tube or Arcadia 12% mouned in the tank. I know some people on here have had problems with the repti glo.

Oh really? thank you destiny, I had no idea repti glo and repti sun may be so different. Hope I can find repti sun in the UK? Not seen it in the shops so will look online.

Appreciate your response, a million thank you's if this is the problem /sigh....
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
It may be easier to find the Arcadia bulbs in the UK. I'm not sure which shops carry them, but they are widely available online.
 

sue09

Hatchling Member
If you go to Swell reptiles they sell the Arcadia thats where I buy mine,hth and that your beardie gets fully fit soon.
 

Liliwen

Member
Original Poster
Thank you to sue09 for your reply. Ruby is so much worse today, days now and nothing has passed her lips. She is a small baby girl for her age and my heart is just breaking.

I have no idea what to do, I cannot believe my gorgeous little dragon is dying because of a brand of UV, but I am trying to obtain an Arcadian brand because I am all out of any other ideas.

We see the vet tomorrow evening, but I have no confidence any more, everything surrounding the care of these wonderful creatures is to make money for other people, I do not want to put the cutest dragon I have ever met through agonies to make the vets money.

I bathed her in repti-boost tonight, she only managed 10 minutes before she got really agitated, rinsed her off and dried her, hoping to all that is good in the world that it helped a little bit, cuddled her close to me, she laid her head in that soft space between my neck and shoulder and I swear my heart just broke for the love of her.

She is sleeping now, so cutely tucked up and peaceful. I won't get a wink tonight for sure.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi Liliwen....can you post a pic of Ruby ? I know her behavior seems troubling, but there may be a few things that can help her out. BTW, the Reptiglo is not really a bad light, one of the top breeders in the U.S. uses them exclusively, but I'm sure it's possible to get a bad one. For one thing, it's not unusual for dragons to lose their appetires as adults. The fact that she is still plump is a GOOD sign. Even if she's small, that is not an indication of ill health. The longest lived people are [in general ] small. :) I do want to ask, how did your vet rule out impaction ? It doesn't sound like she is, but you can't be sure simply by feeling the abdomen. Another thing, she may be dehydrated, so try dribbling water on her snout in the water....if she doesn't drink, try adding a few drops of honey to the water [ warm it slightly so it softens enough to work with] Most beardies like the taste and will drink. One more suggestion, if you haven't tried hornworms, try them. Beardies usually love them, and they are full of moisture + nutrition.

I had a female that lived in a huge tank....she semi brumated for about 2 months....hardly ate for a month or 2 after, but never really lost weight. She seemed lazy but eventually became a LITTLE more active. Still healthy , just not as active as some. Some beardies , a they become adults, just aren't that active. So that in itself is not a sign of bad health. All animals + people have various activity levels.

One more thing, it may be best to give her just one floor, rather than multiple. Then she will be nearer the lights at all times. Hopefully it's just a phase and some of these suggestions can help.
 

Liliwen

Member
Original Poster
I am so grateful for your help and advice AHBD.... I think your note about the different levels could well be spot on... We are going to take out the levels, replace her UV light and do all we can to get her past whatever this is.

Anyway, the specialist depressed me big time. It is clear that Ruby is not well, she has totally stopped eating for days now and is losing condition daily.

She had an X-ray today and no big issues are obvious from that, but....

Because she has been down for so long, semi brumation from January to April, then never really picking up from that, she is potentially suffering from MBD, despite our best efforts. She does not have lots of eggs present although she is in the process of making them apparently.

Vet wants her to come in for a days intensive therapy and blood work, re-hydration, extra calcium, anti biotic injections etc.

If I do nothing she will starve herself to death. I can help after this by feeding her organic baby food through a syringe and bathing in the repti boost stuff.

We will do all we can, no guarantees though and that is the hardest part. Plus of course the massive hole in the bank although to be honest this no longer matters.

I have never felt so sad, poor baby.

Thank you again all of you for taking the time to respond, it comforts me hugely.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Yes, please post a full body shot from above . I'd like to see her body condition. She may not be sick, just some dragons take a looooong brumation. I've had many beardies brumate for 4 months [ they average 3 ] and 5 months may seem long, but they can take it, they are made that way. Also, I would ask the vet why antibiotics will be given, some vets give them if they can't find a reason for " off " behavior, but unless there is an actual infection diagnosed there is no need for antibiotics. And can you take her out in the sun without stressing her too much ? That might help perk her up.
 

Liliwen

Member
Original Poster
AHBD... Thanks again, I am so emotional over this I have to stop and think about Ruby... Ok, I have been getting her out in the sun a bit lately, not had much warm sun but it has perked her up but not enough to eat as yet. Anti-biotics, I hear what you are saying, I agree that I need to manage the actual need, I mean, I will want to know why, she said that as Rubes has been down for so long she almost certainly will have picked up an infection...

I have decided to go for the one day intensive care which includes blood work.

I want to hand manage her from there though, baby food and baths, sun, love and more baby food...

Goodness me, we sure are owned by these amazing creatures, she needs me to help her, and I will, just feel so rubbish that somewhere I have let her down.

Thanks everyone xxx
 

Liliwen

Member
Original Poster
Following an intensive care stay in the hospital today Ruby WaxWorm appears to be resigned to the 4 baths a day and the syringe feeding... Her life hangs in the balance, we have to give her some serious home support to get her past this potentially fatal mountain.

What did we do wrong? We listened to Pet suppliers who have no other thoughts than quick financial wins, our initial £600 investment in what we thought was the best stuff turns out to be ashes in the wind.

Now we have woken up and will do all we can to save this cute and pretty dragon.

Syringe feeding, liquid calcium, frequent bathing in Repti boost, new UV strip, re vamped accommodation ... All our love and more..

It's 50/50 if she makes it, damn
.
DONT LISTEN TO PET STORES. These precious creatures need so much more than expensive vivariums and all the trimmings.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Aw, don't give up hope ! Right now part of her further decline can actually be from her stay at the vets, along with shots that [ these actually hurt]. I can see the need for bloodwork, but some of the other treatment I respectfully disagree with. Please ask for a copy of the bloodwork, post it here and ask Drache613 [ Tracie, one of the mods. to have a look. The bloodwork can show if there are possible liver or kidney issues. As for the 4 baths a day, is that recommended by the vet ? That is excessive and totally unnecessary, plus she doesn't like baths. That will really stress her, so please consider a bath every other day along with a small amount of syringe feeding. She will get plenty of hydration that way without all the stress. I'm so sorry you're going through this stress ! Remember, it may not be as bad as you think....try not to imagine the worst case scenario. When you get a good picture of her, please post it.
 

Liliwen

Member
Original Poster
Thank you again AHBD for replying, I was very miserable last night.

I hate that injections will have really hurt Rubes, I did not imagine otherwise, all injections hurt and of course the day at the vet would not have been pleasant for the poor little girl, I did not feel I had the choice though as she was really low and flat, seriously poorly. She is more alert today though, tired but bright eyed and her colours are really good. She has taken about 3 ml of baby food this morning, and burped in my face! It has stayed down and she had a good poo too, wetter than normal but all the right colours.

Yes, the vet said 4 baths a day with repti boost, well I agree that this feels excessive and I am happier not to follow this particular advice to the letter. I am not over the moon about syringe feeding her either, this is not a nice experience for her but she is refusing to eat for herself so I do not know what else to do other than do this a couple of times a day and keep offering her live food and fresh greens hoping that she will pick up.

I have some liquid calcium which I am happy to give her twice a day, we have replaced her UV bulb with an Arcadia one and will take her outside in the sun when it appears for a proper sun bathe over the next few days. We have a very secure garden and she will not be left alone but will be on my lap or her favourite place on my chest. She fits perfectly there!

I should get her blood work results back on Wednesday, until then keeping her fed and hydrated with added calcium boost is probably all I can do? keen to keep her as de-stressed as I can.

I will get a picture done of her today. Love this forum, such a fantastic place to find so much information.

Love from Ruby Waxworm and her worried Mum and Dad
 
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