Respiratory Infection

[Little D]

I was wondering if some of you could tell me what some of the symptoms are for respiratory infection?

Maybe I just worry too much but I'm a bit concerned that my BD may have this. I haven't taken it to a vet yet because the vets in my area told me that they have to post what they find on a "vet forum" and wait for someone to help them out. This is because no one in my area specializes in reptiles.

So, I thought I could ask here and have better luck. There really is only one thing that is concerning me with my BD and that is that he sits long periods of time now with his mouth partially open. It doesn't strike me as the normal venting for digesting but could be. He only has his mouth open app. 1/2", maybe less than that.

So, what ARE the symptoms to look for in a respiratory infection?

Thanks!

 

[Tigg]

Deep/Extreme breathing
constant or persistant puffing and unpuffing of the beard
frequent gaping
popping/cracking noises with breaths
mucus on the nose/mouth area
swollen nostrils
loss of appetite

 

[Little D]

Well, he's got the gaping going on, that's for sure. I have also noticed some DEEP breathing by him. The appetite could also be questionable because he has gone from eating at least one dish of greens a day (sometimes 2) to not eating them at all. But he does still eat his roaches. So maybe this is in it's early stages?

I just know that he sits there a lot more now with his mouth partially open, in fact, almost constantly, and he never used to do that.

I'm wondering if since I am in an area with low to NO reptile knowledge, if I could just ask them for Baytril at a 5mg/kg dosage at a 22.75% concentration? Run it for 5 days? Let's say I'm wrong and he doesn't have RI, would it really do harm to treat him anyway? If I bring him to my vet, they're just going to play the guessing game anyway and charge me $200 to do what I could do on my own. Figured I could treat him, keep him well hydrated during treatment and see if he improves.

I also have Benebac available. Would it help to give him some of this during the Baytril treatment?

What are your thoughts on my idea? Just doesn't seem right for them to make a killing off of me from someone elses knowledge. She (the vet) has already point blank told me that she has very little to no reptile knowledge.

 

[Tigg]

This one I would leave to Tracie, Hopefully she will chime in soon!

This is the type of illness that can kill your BD if he does in fact have it, and it's left unproperly treated. You may want to consider travelling to a vet with the right herp knowledge.

until then... At the very least boost your temps, and double check that humidity levels inside the tank are not too high. you need to keep them below 30%. watch his eating habbits and if need be you will have to feed baby food through a dropper/syringe

 

[Little D]

Thanks for your replies Tigg. I'll wait and hopefully Tracie will see this and respond.

Travelling to a vet that has reptile knowledge is out of the question because from what I'm able to gather so far, we're talking a minimum 3 hour drive, one way. That would more than double the expenses for them to just turn around and say "yes, I think he may have RI and we need to treat him with Baytril". We just don't have the people here like most places do, that have a GOOD reptile knowledge. They don't even give the right feeding and temp instructions.

As for the humidity level, I usually have it around 30 - 40%. Mostly the 30% mark. However, it does climb higher at night once his lights go out. Could this be what is causing the problem? Too high of a humidity level at night? The temps are 120º for basking and an average of around 84º on the cool side.

 

[Tigg]

Yeah the humidity is pretty high, placing a dehumidifier in the room he is kept should definitely reduce this.
High humidity levels are the leading cause of URI's if I am not mistaken, and it makes it hard for the dragons to breath.

Is 120* in his basking the entire area, or like the highest part? This is also a little high normally (Probably right where you want it now with a RI scare though)

Where abouts in Ontario are you located??

 

[Little D]

The 120º is at the top of his basking rocks (which by the way, he seldom goes on) Should it be closer to 110º? I also thought the humidity level around 30% was okay. Maybe if I mounted a ceramic heat lamp and turned it on at night, it would help keep the humidity down when his lights are out. His viv is kept in the living room because he seems to enjoy it there. He gets to watch everything that's going on and he also seems to enjoy a bit of tv Putting a dehumidifier in there would make it a tad bit dry for us humans, that's why I suggested the ceramic heat light.

I live in Chatham (Southwestern Ontario) and the vet here told me that Toronto would be the closest that she would suggest

 

[Tigg]

You could certainly try a CHE to keep the humidity up without sacraficing the air quality for yourself.

If there is a chance that he really does have a URI, then your temps are perfect. the added heat will aid in fighting the infection, they can regulate their temps so as long as you coold sides are right (sounds like they are) you should be fine.

High Park Animal Hospital in Toronto. is the absolute best place for herps in Ontario.... 3 Hours is a long drive but totally worth it IMO.

 

[Little D]

Could I run one of those CHE's on a dimmer switch? That way, I could just get a big one and if it turns out to be too much, adjust it with the dimmer switch

 

[Tigg]

For the money you will spend on a dimmer switch you would be better off wiring the CHE up to a thermostat... set it between 70-75* and the light will stay off until the temps drop below. A dimmer may damage the bulb, plus be a struggle finding the right setting.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Terry,

How big is your enclosure? What type of basking bulb are you using, & what wattage?
The recommended basking temps are 95-110 & on the cooler end around 78-82.
One reason that he may be gaping is that he is overheating. The gaping is the way that they release heat since they don't have sweat gland & cannot sweat to cool off they will just gape. Sometimes they will move out of the heat & sometimes they don't. If the entire enclosure is too hot, he cannot thermoregulate properly & will overheat.
What are you measuring the temps with currently? Are you using a stick on thermometer, a digital probe or a temp gun?
You can definitely use a dimmer for your Ceramic Heat Emitter, no problem. What does it get down to temperature wise, overnight?
The humidity can run between 30-50% but 30-40% is fine.
Is he eating right now, or showing any of the symptoms of having a respiratory infection other than excessive gaping?
I wanted to review your setup first before discussing medication. Sometimes you can nip it before they actually get a respiratory issue so medication is not needed.
To answer your question regarding whether or not the Baytril would hurt him. IF given properly & dosed properly, technically, a short round of medication for a "suspected" respiratory infection wouldn't hurt him no. However, if he is not showing any signs of one, then, we can wait to medicate. It is a rather harsh medication & is nephrotoxic as well.
Though, you know your dragon better than I do & can see what is going on with him more than I as I cannot see him. If you suspect a respiratory infection & he has mucous, or any coughing/wheezing types of sounds that would indicate he is congested, then, we should look at medicating him as a precaution.

Tracie

 

[Little D]

OKay, I'll try and run through all this as best as I can. Should I miss anything please let me know.

His viv is 4x2x2 (built similar to the crossfire) I run a Reptisun 10 UVB bulb and the heat light is a regular spot light /flood light. I don't recall what wattage the heat bulb is but it's wired to a dimmer switch so that I can closely control the temps. The temp at the top of his basking rocks is, right now 120º. But that's measured with a probe thermometer. When I check the temp with my temp gun, they tend to be a bit lower. The cool side usually runs right around 84º and that's with both thermometers. The humidity during light hours is always around 30 - 40% but usually closer to 30%. At night, after lights are out, the temp in the whole viv never goes any lower than 69º but the humidity climbs to about 60 - 65%.

As for his eating, as I mentioned, he was eating at least one dish of greens per day, sometimes 2. Now he eats absolutely no greens at all, but he does still eat his roaches. I dust his roaches with calcium 3 times a week and he eats around 10 - 15 per day. This may not be an accurate guess but I believe him to be around 9 or 10 months old.

Things that make me worried he has RI is, first, him no longer eating his greens (kept on cool side). Also, he constantly has his mouth open, usually just a slight amount. Before now, he would do what I thought was the normal gaping every so often. He now also spends 95% of his time on the cool side. We have a small ramp that goes up on the cool side and this is where he spends most of his time. He very rarely goes on his basking spot any more. We have also noticed him doing weird things with his neck/throat, which I describe as like a regurgitating action.

I may be totally wrong and I really hope I am. Maybe I am just over reacting to what is normal behavior but that's what happens when you come to love your pet so much. That's why I'm bringing my concerns to you people. And, not sure if it's relevant but I also have Reptaid and Benebac here if it would be any use.

Appreciate your assistance with this Tracie!

 

[Drache613]

Hello Terry,

Ok, thanks for the tank setup information.
I do think that it is too hot for him in that area, & that is why he is spending so much time on the cool side & gaping constantly. Normally, they would have coughing or wheezing noises, along with mucous which is a giveaway for respiratory infections.
I think you should try lowering the temps on the basking end to a range of 95-110 max, & see if he begins to bask more.
How do his eyes look? Are they bright or sunken in?
He could also be just slowing down a bit for a brumation phase at his age. Have you gotten a fecal done on him?
What do his stools look like? Are they really smelly?

Tracie

 

[Little D]

The stools are a bit on the soft/mushy side and SMELL!! lol Not sure how bad they should normally smell so don't know if now is bad bad.

Question, if my BD is around 9 or 10 months old, does 603 grams sound about right for his weight? I just purchased a digital scale to weigh him with and this is what it said. I've started him on Reptaid but will have to increase the dose now that I know his weight. I also lowered the temps as you suggested!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Wow, he weighs a good amount. Do you have a picture of him perhaps you could post? How long is he then?
At 9-10 months he is getting mature. I would need to see a picture of him to make sure he is not too heavy for his length though.
So, what did you get the temps down to now?
The stools should not knock you out with smell, but, of course, it will smell a little bit.
Maybe the Reptaid will help him. Is he eating a good amount on his own then?

Tracie