Repeated seizures (and other symptoms) with no vet around

Dustie

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Dustie
Hello,

So sorry your dragon is so ill, poor baby!
What brand of tube bulb are you using now? I am glad that you got a new tube bulb, that should
help a lot. Is his head/eye area shedding?
For now, I would cut back on calcium intake to just 1-2 times per week, to help his system try to
normalize. Using the D3 too frequently, can cause hypercalcemia or hypervitaminosis D, which
can be as bad as too little calcium. It is always hard to know where moderation comes into play,
but you meant well & this doesn't always happen. It could be the combination of poor absorption
due to the UVB & D3, etc.
Are his urates hard or soft right now? Are you giving extra oral fluids right now? He is likely quite
dehydrated, from the imbalances in his system. What types of foods/slurry are you giving him?
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie
Maybe I should make a new slurry minus the Tums? I used two crushed Tums in a slurry that fills 2/3 of a pint jar.
 

Dustie

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Dustie
I figure everyone on here studies their beardie's urate. The attached photo is Dustie's this morning. Does it indicate anything? Does it look okay? To me, it shows more clear liquid than before. The last urate he had was two days ago, which was solid dark green and white liquid. As mentioned earlier, we have been feeding him liquid food with a dropper and giving him three baths a day so I suppose it is possible that he is getting more liquid than normal. As for his overall demeanor, he is still very ill with seizures but looks better than several days ago. He's most alert in the morning and seems to get wiped out by all our handling with baths and feeding. He naps a lot in the afternoon/evening. His seizures are still regular.
 

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KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 4 and Blaze is 2
I figure everyone on here studies their beardie's urate. The attached photo is Dustie's this morning. Does it indicate anything? Does it look okay? To me, it shows more clear liquid than before. The last urate he had was two days ago, which was solid dark green and white liquid. As mentioned earlier, we have been feeding him liquid food with a dropper and giving him three baths a day so I suppose it is possible that he is getting more liquid than normal. As for his overall demeanor, he is still very ill with seizures but looks better than several days ago. He's most alert in the morning and seems to get wiped out by all our handling with baths and feeding. He naps a lot in the afternoon/evening. His seizures are still regular.
The poop looks good and as far as the extra watery just means hes hydrated -- did you get the UVB situated?
 

Hazel_AndWarrior_10

Juvie Member
Beardie name(s)
Hazel my female baby beardie and Warrior my male baby rescue
I agree his poop looks good. I haven't been on a lot anymore:(. I am really sorry to still hear about your dragon:( Again, a Beautiful dragon. I have hope for him. Pray for him always that he survives.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

It sounds like he has a lot of fighting spirit, bless him. How is he doing today?
We are all thinking about him & hope that he gets better.
Which brand of UVB are you using now, the Reptisun 10 T5 tube?
Be sure you keep him a little warmer over night to help him feel better. Around
75-80F is usually pretty good.

Keep us posted on him.
Tracie
 

Dustie

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Dustie
Hello,

It sounds like he has a lot of fighting spirit, bless him. How is he doing today?
We are all thinking about him & hope that he gets better.
Which brand of UVB are you using now, the Reptisun 10 T5 tube?
Be sure you keep him a little warmer over night to help him feel better. Around
75-80F is usually pretty good.

Keep us posted on him.
Tracie
Dustie is hanging in there. His appetite is better than a week ago but his tremors / seizures are the same, which means they are regular throughout the day. Any change in environment--sound or sight--often triggers them. Anytime he is moved for any reason, will always trigger one. Sometimes it's just tremors where he shakes in place but more often he runs in circles with his mouth wide open. I'm thinking the amount of energy he is expending through this is not good so I'm trying to leave him a lone for the most part after trying to feed him and bath him. He must be expending more calories than normal.

He is most alert in the late morning and eats a little by hand. The last two days he has eaten 2-3 mealworms and the veggie mix by hand each day. However, this morning I just got a few small squirts of liquid in before he shut me out. Yesterday, he accepted a small spoonful of the more solid part of veggie mix. After his morning meal and bath he just wants to nap the rest of the day unless he's having a seizure.

To me, it looks like his fat pads on his head are gone. I'm trying to get him to eat as much as he can though.

We do use a ceramic heat lamp at night to keep his cage warm. Yes, the UVB is a 34 inch Reptisun 10.0 UVB T5 high output tube.

I feel like he could have MBD because of his tremors/seizures and receding nose/jaw. I don't notice a "rubber jaw" but his nose is definitely more rounded and shorter it used to be. (Long sigh....) Perhaps this is the case of too much calcium or an absorption problem causing MBD (since we gave him calcium powder w/ Vit D daily).

His mouth rot seems like it's improved with regular betadine treatment. His tail rot seems the same. There are a couple of small sores on the top of his head behind his eyes that I've treated with topicals and they are not getting worse at least.

My main question now is, will his seizures ever subside? Once it's in his nervous system will he always have them? Has anyone had a dragon who had lots of seizures and they went away? He's had multiple a day for a week now. What I've read about MBD is that it can be reversed with care IF it's caught early enough but not if it's set in. Caring for him for months would be okay if his seizures went away eventually. But they are so often it is definitely not a quality of life. It's hard to watch.

Here are a few photos from today. Sometimes I think he might have swelling in his legs, like one is larger than the other. I'm also wondering about his knees. Are they getting scale problems? Is it from seizures or rot? I've given him a few betadine/water baths too.
 

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AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there, I'm so sorry to read what Dustie is going through and how sad this is for your family. I tried to read everything so a few thoughts are to definitely replace his uvb light since it's a year old and also cut the baths way down to only 1-2 X a week at most. You're right when you said that this is one of the things that can trigger the seizures and wear him out. Proper uvb might lessen the seizures by helping him absorb the calcium and other minerals but that's not a certainty. Poor guy has tail rot, too. Any vet should be able to cut that off right above the bad area , even without putting him under so the infection doesn't spread. See if you can find one to do it. Otherwise you might have to do it yourself, which in most cases does not seem to cause much pain.
 

Dustie

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Dustie
Hi there, I'm so sorry to read what Dustie is going through and how sad this is for your family. I tried to read everything so a few thoughts are to definitely replace his uvb light since it's a year old and also cut the baths way down to only 1-2 X a week at most. You're right when you said that this is one of the things that can trigger the seizures and wear him out. Proper uvb might lessen the seizures by helping him absorb the calcium and other minerals but that's not a certainty. Poor guy has tail rot, too. Any vet should be able to cut that off right above the bad area , even without putting him under so the infection doesn't spread. See if you can find one to do it. Otherwise you might have to do it yourself, which in most cases does not seem to cause much pain.
Thanks for the tip on the tail (pun intended!) I do hope that changing out the UVB will lessen the seizures. It's been a few days so we'll just have to wait and see if it helps. That would be wonderful! He did drink some water in the bath today, which was great to see.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

How is Dustie doing today? I am so sorry he is still having some trouble, it does take time for them
to recover, if it is calcium related. This is a very common ailment unfortunately.
I am glad to hear he did drink some water during his bath, bless him. The baths can be helpful in
rehabbing him so that he becomes stronger. Just let him move around in the water & try to swim if
that doesn't seem to bother him too much.
Keep us posted on how he is progressing.

Tracie
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
I didn't see the part about using crushed tums, I'd definitely not use them. The Calcium powder from the pet companies is specifically for reptiles. Just use a pinch of the calcium with D3 in the slurries and remember to stop the 3 baths a day, that is way too much and can contribute to any scale rot that may be developing. Reptiles that come from an area like Australia should never be submerged in water multiple times a day, it can cause more problems than do any good. The 3 baths a day is a random number thrown out there long ago. Soaking Dustie once or twice a week should be fine to let him drink , especially if he's taking in the slurries.

How's he doing today ?
 

Dustie

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Dustie
I didn't see the part about using crushed tums, I'd definitely not use them. The Calcium powder from the pet companies is specifically for reptiles. Just use a pinch of the calcium with D3 in the slurries and remember to stop the 3 baths a day, that is way too much and can contribute to any scale rot that may be developing. Reptiles that come from an area like Australia should never be submerged in water multiple times a day, it can cause more problems than do any good. The 3 baths a day is a random number thrown out there long ago. Soaking Dustie once or twice a week should be fine to let him drink , especially if he's taking in the slurries.

How's he doing today ?
Thank you for this response. I do not want to get my hopes up but Dustie seems to be doing SLIGHTLY better the last few days in terms of seizures. As in they are less frequent. He still has some severe ones but it's not all the time with every transition. His eyes also seem to focus more often. For about a week I wasn't sure if he had gone blind. He mostly kept them closed or opened half way. When they were open they didn't seem clear. Now, when they are open they seem more clear to me. I'm hoping the change in bulb is helping with his calcium balance, albeit very slowly. I'm so glad to at least have hope there. This morning he seemed okay with eating by hand. (He didn't clench shut / keep eyes closed like sometimes). He held his mouth open a couple of times. I blended up some new dandelion greens with some carrots and a bit of water. No Tums. He seemed to like the flavor better. (It smelled a lot better to me!). I've snuck a few meal worms in his mouth daily. He chews them a bit but not as aggressively as normal. I'm not sure how well they are digested if he doesn't really chew them up well but oh well.

Now that I've got a calcium routine figured out, I'm most worried about his bacterial infections. His tail rot, mouth rot, and the small sores around his eyes. The mouth rot seems to mostly be on the front of his mouth, his nose and underneath middle of bottom lip. I don't see black / decay inside along his gumline. I'm worried that his immune system cannot fight it even with betadine solution treatments. I trimmed the black tip off his tail last night and might go a bit further today. (I'm so nervous about this but I understand it could just keep spreading.) I want to give him every chance of survival....if he's not suffering from constant seizures. I want so badly to have oral antibiotics. I'm planning on ordering some. A few vets I talked to didn't want to medicate without bloodwork. But what do I have to lose? I've read about Baytril and Trimethoprin. I'm not sure which would be better or how much to give him. But again, if it's life or death...when is the tipping point when his little body is overtaken? It's going to take days to get meds shipped here anyway. I know vets are cautious about being held accountable for giving advice and subscribing meds. But I'm not going to go after anyone if it doesn't end up working. I'm just trying to save our pet. Please tell me what I should do here.

I'm attaching photos. You can see that he's more alert. Me taking these photos did not trigger a seizure, which is a big deal to me.
 

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Dustie

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Dustie
I didn't see the part about using crushed tums, I'd definitely not use them. The Calcium powder from the pet companies is specifically for reptiles. Just use a pinch of the calcium with D3 in the slurries and remember to stop the 3 baths a day, that is way too much and can contribute to any scale rot that may be developing. Reptiles that come from an area like Australia should never be submerged in water multiple times a day, it can cause more problems than do any good. The 3 baths a day is a random number thrown out there long ago. Soaking Dustie once or twice a week should be fine to let him drink , especially if he's taking in the slurries.

How's he doing today ?
He also pooped again last night. Not as much as a few days ago. Not as much water in it. But it looks like he's still digesting.
 

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