Reddish ball in poop and a growth question (pics inside)

[Delshara]

Hi,

This morning, Nero had his daily poop during bathtime. He strained a little to get it out. A reddish-orange-brown ball came out, attached to the white urates. The ball didn't look hard, though. The rest of the poop looked normal. Here are pics. The first one was taken while it was still in the water, but the second one is a lot clearer.

He hasn't eaten any red food recently and the poop "smelled" normal, so I don't think it's parasites. And yesterday's poop was totally normal, so this is a really recent development. The only thing I can think of is his staple feeder - superworms. Is it possible that the shells of the superworms could be in the ball? I really hope it isn't blood.

I can't find the list of questions but here is his stats:

Pet store claimed he was "about a year old" back in April. If this is accurate he'd be 17 months old now. (The vet couldn't tell us for sure)
18" male
40 gallon tank
4-month old 100W T-Rex MVB. He is 12" to 15" away from the bulb surface.
I do have a 40W household bright white bulb for additional light, but I don't turn it on every day.
Non-adhesive shelf liner substrate
Temps taken with digital thermometer. Basking side 95 - 110* (it has been fluctuating lately) and cool side 80-83*.
Temps taken on basking surface or substrate surface in both cases.
He gets a daily salad with a mix of: dandelion greens, escarole, collard greens, turnip greens. I mist the greens.
He doesn't like to eat greens in front of me now, but he must be eating them because most of his poop is green.
He's not a fruit guy. Occasionally he gets pepper, zucchini, or summer squash, but he hasn't had any lately - although his recent hornworms did have to eat red peppers after their food ran out - but that was days ago and the hornworms are now all gone.
He also gets small 1" superworms once a day, about 20 - 25. Dusted 5X a week with Rep-Cal Calcium without D3 and 2X a week with Rep-Cal Herptivite.
I know adults have a different supplementation schedule, but I'm not sure if he's done growing yet.
I am going to switch to larges when the smalls are done, and then cut down on the number of supers a day.
He gets a 10-15 minute bath in warm water every day. We've skipped a day or two now and then, but not recently. He doesn't drink from a water dish.
Poops at least once a day, sometimes twice.
Last fecal was back in May - came back clean.
He doesn't look like he's lost any weight, but I have access to electronic balances, and could weigh him myself to check.

I am also wondering if it's true that the viv size can limit a beardie's growth? Nero has been stuck at 18" for a few weeks now and the viv width is exactly 18". Should I up his protein intake? A bigger viv is in the works. I need to get paid first.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

 

[AMHaak]

To me that looks like blood, and I would try to get another stool sample and take him to the vet. I do not know a lot about this, so I hope someone with more experience will reply to your post. Just to let you know the superworms are bad for beardies because they can cause an impaction in your beardie. I would have to say that you really need a bigger tank for your beardie. I do not know if this is the reason why he is not growing, but he still needs a bigger tank. I would still give him vitamins regularly, but I would not give him more. Too many vitamins can make a beardie sick. Hope this helps a little bit, sorry that I do not have more information.

 

[Delshara]

Supers can cause impaction, but he's 18" (recommended length is 16") and the supers are small (one inch), not large. He's had supers for a month and a half, chews well, and he's pooped every day we've had him including this morning. Sometimes there are tiny pieces of shell in the poop, but not this morning when the pics were taken.

I'm willing to take him to the vet, but I'd like to see if the next poop has this reddish-orange ball before I take him. He doesn't seem to be in distress right now - he's sitting under his MVB and looking perky. I would think that if it was blood it wouldn't be in a concentrated mass like that - it would be throughout the poop. But I'm not an expert. Anyone else have expertise or insight on what this is?

I can't afford a bigger viv until the end of the month, but I agree that he needs a bigger one. And yeah, I've never given him vites more than 2X a week.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Delshara,

That urate is somewhat typical actually. That color of urate, the orange, is just urate build up basically, that has hardened.
The supplementation can sometimes dictate the density of the urates though. I don't think it appears to be blood. If the urates are that hard though, he sounds to be a little dehydrated however. Perhaps you could give oral fluids for a week or two, daily, to see if that helps him out. Straining could cause prolapse. Too much supplementation will dehydrate them also.
You could cut down on his calcium to 4 times per week, & the vitamins to only 1 time per week right now to see if that helps to improve his hydration status.
His diet sounds like it is fine, with all of the vegetation daily he should be getting a balanced diet. How many total feeders daily does he get right now? No, I don't think his protein intake should be increased. If he is 17 months old, he might grow more, but it is hard to tell.
The tank size wont dictate his growth no.
Good that the fecal came back clean in May, so I don't think that will end up being the problem though.

Let me know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[Delshara]

Thank you Tracie. You are amazing!!!

I'll change the supplementation. The oral fluids (Pedialyte, yes?)... do I use a dropper, or can I put it in his bathwater instead of orally? I'm not quite sure on how to pry a beardie's mouth open He has never taken to the dropping-water-on-nose technique of drinking.

He gets 20 - 25 live feeders daily right now - small 1" to 1.5" superworms. I noticed that he left a few of them wriggling around in his dish today after lunch, so he definitely stops when he's full.

I'll keep you updated.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

You are very welcome!
The pedialyte can be used to bath him in, but be sure to use the non colored type so it wont stain him any. Just try to see if you can get him to drink from a plastic dropper. If he just wont, then, there is not a whole lot you can do about it. Some dragons take very well to it while others simply do not. I am lucky, all of ours absolutely love drinking from a plastic dropper. Maybe if you just continue to work with him, he will learn to drink from it.
So the supers are very small then? Ok, that is fine. If he is eating adequate amounts of greens & veggies then you can continue the protein intake of that amount for awhile longer. I would begin to start cutting back the protein though pretty soon when you are sure that he is done growing so he doesn't develop kidney troubles. Adults simply don't need more than about 40-50 feeders per week.
He will most likely just continue to fill out & mature now in his 2nd year of life but probably wont grow in length much more, if any.
That is ok, 18 inches is a good length. How much does he weigh, do you know?

Tracie

 

[Delshara]

Thank you!! At his last checkup in May, the vet said he weighed about a pound. I can actually get ahold of a balance today, so I'll weigh him asap. I'll work on the dropper situation also and get Pedialyte today. I couldn't sleep last night and wondered if he just doesn't like our filtered water. Sometimes, even after water goes through our Brita, there's an odd taste. So I thought I would try a flavored type in the dropper, and then put the unflavored in the bath if he just won't take the dropper.

He had a few false starts on eating more veg than bugs, so it's been hard to tell when to cut down the bugs for once and for all. If he's stuck at 18", maybe he really is done growing? I'll keep an eye on him and keep measuring him. You're still amazing!!

 

[Drache613]

Hello Delshara,

He might like the flavored pedialyte maybe that will help him take fluids through a dropper.
I know, it is hard to know when they really are done growing. He will finish filling out even if you do cut the protein down & increase the greens & veggies because that is just how they are designed.
Though since he had a slow start, it is possible he could grow a little bit more it is just hard to know.
I hope he enjoys his pedialyte bath! :mrgreen: His weight at around 450 grams is very good for 18 inches though, so I don't think there is anything to worry about growth wise.

I hope he is doing well today.

Tracie

 

[Delshara]

Hi Tracie! Good news: He's taking to the dropper. He's not gulping down the Pedialyte, and sometimes getting more of it down his beard than in his mouth - but he's drinking. I got the cherry kind. He also got a 20 minute bath this morning.

He pooped also. No straining, and no ball, but one end of his (otherwise white) urates was still the same orangey color. I'll keep giving him Pedialyte and use the new schedule for calcium and vites.

I never had enough time to get to the balance, but certainly will in the next week or so. Good to hear that he's at a nice weight. He's got a cute chubby belly.

 

[AMHaak]

I am glad to hear that your beardie is doing better. Like I said I did not really know what was going on. I was just taking a guess, but i am glad that someone replied who knew more. I was happy to know more about this in case this ever happens to my beardie. The only reason why I said it is not a good idea to feed your beardies superworms is because I use to feed my beardie superworms, and he did not poop for a week and a half. I had to give him baby food to help him get it through his system. My beardie is 20 inches, so he should have been able to handle them. I do not feed them to him anymore and he is fine. Every beardie is different though. Good luck, and I hope everything turns out ok.

 

[Delshara]

Oh, I understand. We only have the one beardie and we know all his cute little quirks by now, but if we get another one it's good to know that they might do things Nero doesn't do. Thanks for replying!