Reanimating Hornworms (new pics - Pupae!)

[blondie098]

With the gracious help of a few mods (thanks Gina & Diane!!!) we may have a temporary solution -- they both do not advise the green tomato idea, but Diane ran out of chow and offered her horns the greens that her beardies eat. They ate it! She also said Mulberry leaves may work, but I cannot find them in Ohio (I have chow anyway, and am experimenting with recipes for the next week with some of our leftovers).

This is what Diane wrote back to me (diamc):
I do agree that this could be confusing. I know hornworms eat greens as I ran out of food and gave them some of the beardie mixture which they enjoyed. They will also eat potatoes and green bell peppers. Supposedly, only the tomato leaves are supposed to be toxic but I would be hesitant to feed green tomatoes, would try a little ripened ones instead, then of course there's mulberry leaves. Hope this helps.

 

[fresnowitte]

Mulberry leaves? Hmmm...I guess if I had an emergency I could go out back and pick some. I have used them for the silkies a few times.

 

[blondie098]

I would assume the pesticide rule applies, but if you know the tree is "clean", I would try it. it was worth all the research today, i learned a few things!

 

[BlazinDragons]

I don't know, I'm just going to have to test it. I just ran to a specialty store across town, it's an all-organic large local place called Mustard Seed Market (in Montrose / Akron, Ohio) -- I dropped $30 on the wheat germ, agar, linseed oil & raw brewers yeast. Gotta go to Aldi and get some powdered milk, and GNC for the vitamins. All told, the agar is the most expensive part of the food, so I think that's why the chow is so pricey. Not that the pure wheat germ is cheap, either, the recipe uses a lot. If this works, I'll search hard & long for a cheaper source.

I searched for over 2 hours, comparing notes on recipes for the chow. I wouldn't call myself a gourmet cook, but I fare very well in the kitchen. Only found 3 recipes total, and one included things that only research labs would be able to get (like strepto-something antibiotic). That was in the recipe from Purdue University. This Wisconsin U one sounds much more manageable, just still not cheap.

If it fails, I'll just keep ordering my food from greatlakes. Rob is great, and I am in no way trying to compete with him. He's a great guy, and has been wonderfully patient & helpful answering all my weird questions thus far! (thanks Rob!) But if he ever quits making the chow, I'm not sure what to do.

I am now getting ready to spend at least another hour or more trying to locate agar cheaper. I am curious, to all those great cooks out there: since agar is seaweed w/great thickening properties... could I instead mix a 1:1 ratio of unsweetened gelatin with kelp powder? Then maybe substitute measure-4-measure? that would probably cut my cost in half on the agar!

Just a thought, we use kelp powder, so I always have that in the house. (ok, no smartalec comments, I hate the smell of it, but remember all those allergies I have! I have to get my vegetarian energy source somewhere! It is actually very good sprinkled on homemade french fries or mac-n-cheese!)

What is the best price you have found the agar for?

 

[BlazinDragons]

That's great information that you posted Dawn. I wish I'd had it before the eggs I got from you. I order the powdered hornworm chow from mulberry farms and it looks just like silkworm chow. The hornworms that I have from the same date as yours are barely 1 inch in length not 3ish inches. I had decided not to use their chow the next time I was going to order from greatlakes but I think I'll give you recipe a try instead.

The B vitamin is a complex right?

I also had that problem with the silkworm chow. The hornworms eat it but they grow way to slow. I also had a lot of die offs from them eating the silkworm chow.

 

[blondie098]

Kyle (h0ndap0w3r) & I have joined our brains on the chow recipes, we're playing with different things. So stay tuned & we'll post our results after some trial & error...

 

[h0ndap0w3r]

error is an understatement! haha i lost like 400 worms all due to a wrong food combination. . . a by product of yeast is c02, which in confined spaces = death. . . lol but i think i might have it figured out, just posting on here to move ur trend up and to add it to my posts. . .

 

[newowner2]

look at the color of those worms wow i have to try some of those out with my bd's

 

[HYPORollo]

wow its 430 in the am and i have read this whole thread im breeding feeders silkies supers pw and i was thinking bout hornworms and now i realy think im going for it thanks so much for this thread if any has some eggs for sale i would love to buy some i love knowing what im feeding my beardies and knowing its healthy insects since i lost one of my favorite beardies awhile back due to nasty infested crickets and vowed never to feed my babiers those horrible things ever again thank you so much for this thread blondie098 the work you have done is awsome and very usefull i applaud your efforts and countless hours of hard work and carefull planning and then sharing your finding with us is amazing thank you

 

[blondie098]

I am back, it's a long story, but I have so much to post! Kyle (h0ndap0w3r) & I did so much testing, and both got grossed out with mold problems, etc. But we're on the right track! I also have a new possible recipe from working with a biology prof at Maryland U... more soon!

Anyone interested in starting their own colonies, I have a major abundance of pupae right now, and am starting tests for chilling for the overwintering process, etc. -- but if you want me to post a FS thread for pupae, let me know interest for pupae? I would sell them as pairs at the minimum, or groupings (incase someone doesn't hatch)

 

[clear]

Great thread, I look forward to seeing the progress you make on the chow. Its the one main thing keeping me from investing my time in them!

 

[blondie098]

If anyone can help with a clarification -- the new recipe I have to work with uses Navy Beans as the base for protein -- beautifuldragons.com nutritional guide has loads of other beans listed as ok for beardies, but not navy beans?

I have put word out to Goonie, so maybe the mods can help us with this info?

Also working on getting permission to publish the recipe after its perfected, as the base recipe came from Univ Maryland compliments of a wonderful prof there named Frank. He has been great in helping me with their biology dept info on past manduca studies.

 

[h0ndap0w3r]

very nice blondie!!! i was wondering where you had gone!!! lol i hope all is well i currently have a new generation of worms in the works and had bought some food from rob since i cant get it right at this moment.

 

[invictusrules]

If anyone can help with a clarification -- the new recipe I have to work with uses Navy Beans as the base for protein -- beautifuldragons.com nutritional guide has loads of other beans listed as ok for beardies, but not navy beans?

Sounds really interesting! Kinda like navy bean hummus for caterpillars! At a guess, no one's done a nutritional breakdown of the navy beans, yet, so they're not on the chart. I can't imagine that they'd be much different than canned kidney beans, though. But if they do have something that's not good for beardies, it might accumulate in the caterpillars... like in Monarchs and Fritillaries. I'm intrigued... Keep up the research!

 

[blondie098]

The guy I've been in contact with is a Molecular Biology prof -- so I've dropped him a detailed email asking about their studies of buildup / toxicity / nutrutional info etc. so I'll update if he has any further info

also asked how to perfectly preserve the caterpillars in larvae stage so middle school kids can do some fun dissection experiments... ew