Ready to bring her back to PetSmart_ UPDATE

[mccallumpiper]

I am beyond confused and frustrated with my beardie. I have done everything I can for her. I have taken her to the vet treated her pinworms used probiotics and reptaid and nothing has helped. She sits in her cave all day and doesnt eat at all. She is not brumating my temps are perfect I use Reptisun 10.0 I measure temps with acu rite from walmart. I have taken every precaution and she is still not active at all and has no personality. I dont know what to do anymore. All I know is I want to start over with buying a bearded dragon from a reputable breeder so at least I know it will start out healthy. My tank is 4 feet by 2 feet wide and I used tile. I have done all that I could and she just wont snap out of it months ago she used to eat roaches but now not even superworms. If you can help me it would be great but I think she needs to go back I really have nowhere else to turn. I have been to the vet twice with no resolution in site.
Thank you very much for any help

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

If you have a baby, the tank might be to big.

 

[mccallumpiper]

well she is about 16 inches.. I gave her a bath yesterday and she went ride to her hide. Would it still be too big for that size?

 

[kimmie]

I would just say "be patient" ...maybe because of her size she is going thru a semi-brumation. Not sure how long you've had her but if it's been months, well I know personally I couldn't do that to Angie. I've had her since mid April and she's 19" long. She's been doing this "phase" thing for a few weeks now (would have to look at the date of my first post). I had her checked out at the vet - no parasites/worms, everything was perfect lab wise as well. While she did eat 3 worms today I'm not getting too excited as she's done this before. I'll keep syringe feeding her CC with bf chicken and liq. vit. Calcium if that's what it takes.

We've bonded with her, we love her quirks, her looks, etc! To me (and this is me personally) it would be like giving up on a child that has difficulties. Again, that's just me!

Maybe it is possible that some beardies while under 1 yr but a decent size length/girth do a semi-brumation.

I don't know what else to tell you other than to be patient. AND would Petsmart even take it back at this point if it's past their warranty? I know ours offers a 14 day warranty and that's it!

Maybe put a piece of cardboard up to seperate it and make it a little smaller. I know Angie doesn't use a lot of her space but she doesn't seem to mind either.

 

[mccallumpiper]

I know I would hate to do it but I just dont know where to turn at this point. I guess it could be a partial brumation I didnt really know there was uch thing. The other day I put her in the bath she had a Bowel Movement but the Urate was not really white but yellow and not solid at all more of a liquid. So I have been bathing her more figuring she is dehydrated but as soon as I put her in she goes in her cave starts scratching and lays down.

I dont want to give up on her I am just frustrated and I never felt a real bond wit her because for the better part of her life she has been lethargic and certainly not displaying any kind of personality.

 

[kimmie]

How long have you had her? You said she did have parasites/worms? Is the treatment over with?

Angie's never one to be fond of baths. 99% of the time she just sits there and often it's not too long before she's trying to climb up my arm wanting out. When we're done bath time, I PUT her on her basking spot instead of her choosing where to go. Like I said, we've had her 5 months - so she's maybe 7 - 8 months old (guessing at that even as I have no idea how long she was at petsmart). She is 19" long and around 350 grams. It's possible with yours having parasites/worms that you've never had a chance to see her personality and now if she is going thru a phase it might be awhile, not sure.

Do you let her lay on your chest any? We did that with Angie quite often, let her bond. She LOVES to be on my shoulder if/when I take her out, it's often the 1st place she goes to.

 

[MALIBUSMOM]

Maybe its too hot for her.....malibu will not bask if temps are over 100.As they get bigger some do not like it as hot...How close can she get to the UVB?
Is she eating any greens?have you tried cantalope?watermelon?
The beardie burrito?do you snuggle w/ her?Do you let her have free roam...have you picked any dandilion greens and fed them to her?have you tried holding the crickets by thier leg and feeding them to her?

 

[mccallumpiper]

She did have coccidia the second week I had her but I never did treat her for that because I thought it was due to relocation stress. When I got her tested recently it was just pinworms apparently so the coccidia levels must have fallen. I accidentally gave her way more than she was supposed to have so I did another regular dose a couple days after that. That is all I have done with the Panacur. I have been using reptaid and acidophilitz but the reptaid isnt doing much. I bought her in May and I believe she was around 5 inches then. I have another fecal Ill take in tomorrow but I really dont think its parasites anymore. Maybe the melamine cage I made is too big? I am not sure. I cant understand it at all.

She can get within 7 inches of it easily. I was feeding her roaches but she doesnt want them. I have been feeding her superworms for a long time now. I have benn trying dandelion greens and mustard greens but she isnt eating them either. I do allow her free roam but she usually just sits there anyways. The basking spot is around 100 and cool side in the lower 80s.

I really appreciate you all trying to help I really need it

 

[Monkey]

Mine is going through a semibrumation, she's about the size of yours.. She is not as active and she didn't poop for ten days. I was rather worried.

Has she had a phase where she was good? like after treatment before this started?
If that's the case then its likely brumation.

I guess since you have done your homework that you are using a reptisun? if you use zilla brand the poor UV will cause her to hide, as well as if you haven't changed the UV in a long time. THe uv light needs to be changed every 6 months or it won't do your lizard no good and I didn't know this and had the same UV for along time after a while mine stopped eating and started hiding, it was the UV light.

Do you have a restless home? I am getting a beardie today from a woman where her beardie has done the same, her house is loud and it stressed him out. So that can cause it too..

I hope you find a solution soon, good luck

 

[Sardonyx]

Nooooooo! Don't give her up!! You seem like you care so much with all you have done for her, and if she's feeling down, then a caring friend is what she needs - if you take her back, she could end up with someone who just doesn't look after her, and all your hard work will be undone!

I know that this isn't EXACLTY the same situation as yourself, but my tortoise (Herbie) has worms. I had to go twice to the vets to get him treated. He wasn't eating, he wasn't getting up or moving at all, and I got exactly like you, thinking I was doing everything I could and it was doing no good at all. I had to get him up EVERY DAY, and put him under his lamp. 9/10 times, he'd just head back into his tunnel, and hide, so I'd have to get him up again (this was in summer, so it wasn't like he was trying to hibernate!). I had to hand feed him, as he was rapidly losing weight, and would just walk past - or right over - his food.

It's also worth noting (I know he's not a beardie, but still...) that he seemed to get worse again after each treatment for worms, and it took him almost 2 weeks to seem to come round again.

Anyway, all I'm saying is; that I did this for like 2 months or more. I weighed him every day to see how he was progressing and bathed him (which Horsfield's don't particularly work), but, FINALLY, he has only just started to get up himself in this last week and eat himself. He doesn't do it every day, and when he decides not to, I leave him alone. But he's getting there, and believe me - there in NOTHING more satisfying knowing that you have helped your little critter to get better!!!

Maybe try her on a few other things to eat, as Malibusmom suggested - they all seem to go off things now and then. My little fella used to love watercress, and in the 3 months I've had him has totally gone off them in favour of butternut squash!

Do you have any way to weigh her, to keep an eye on her weight? If she isn't losing any, then that can put your mind at rest a little, as at least she's not wasting away.

Also, I noticed that you said she was scratching a lot before going to sleep... my first beardie used to do this, until I gave her deeper substrate so she could really dig herself in, and then she stopped doing it. What about changing her substrate? You never know - she might not like the tiles?

- Emma

P.S. I know this whole reply post is tortoise-related, but I did go through a lot with my first beardie, so I do have some experience with them!!!

 

[mccallumpiper]

Hey All,
For UVB I use a ReptiSun 10.0 it is a 48 inch and goes across the whole tank Here is a pic of my viv

I have not yet fed her any kind of squash but as soon as I get done typing this I will go pick some up. Also My flooring is linoleum so I am not sure if that is a issue or not? Thank you for your help and support with your stories they certainly do help me a lot. Please dont hesitate to suggest any corrections that need to be made in my viv.

The phase where she was good was a while ago back when she was eating roaches and what not. She was shedding regularyl and all but now hasnt shed in a couple months. She was just the same before treatment and after acting the same way. The last treatment was over a week ago now.

She is in my room where it is always quiet and nice and dark for her at night. I guess semibrumation could be an answer? Its soo tough to get answers especially when the closest vet to me and almost only one says there is no such thing as brumation.
Maybe they are not all gone but I am not sure.

The first dose I gave her by accident was .5 ml and it was only supposed to be .12. I dont know what I was thinking I think I got the measurements confused with the critical care dose. So the nest dose a couple days later was the recommended dose.

What do you guys use to weigh them something from walmart? I will go now and get something

 

[Jess]

Im not really sure if this is possible or not, but I saw that you said your gave her a bit of an OD on her meds... Does anyone know if something like that could cause brain damage, or something similar? My first rescued beardie (Wink) had alot of health problems, and he needed alot of meds when he was really tiny. Im still convinced he had some kind of brain damage because he was just never "all there". He had another health issue that could have caused brain damage too, so Im not sure if it was that or all the meds he was on.
Just a thought.

BTW, I noticed Wink got ALOT worse after he had Panacur too. His organs were failing him as I would later find out, but it gave him pretty much the same exact symptoms as parasites so I treated him even though his test came back negative. After the Panacur, he wouldnt eat and I pretty much had to force feed him every day for the rest of his life, and he was constantly hiding too.

 

[Sardonyx]

Hmmmmmm.

Now I'm no expert with the whole medication thing, but maybe someone with more expertise would be kind enough to either back me up or correct me? I was going to ask, when did you have her last faecal sample checked, and what was the verdict? I know you say you have another ready to go tomorrow, bu I was just wondering.

Possibly, if there were only a few worms/eggs left, then you could back off or totally stop with the meds (if you're still giving her them)? If you gave her one massive dose, then I imagine it woull have killed everything off, so really she needs chance to let her 'good' bacteria re-populate so she can digest again. Maybe this is why she's not eating so much at the moment? They are required for healthy digestion - same in humans really.

Personally, I'd take her off the meds and see if she improves in the next few days. If the worms are still there if she picks up, you can always treat her again, but you'd be starting from a 'clean slate' and with the correct dosage?

One suggestion I might make about her viv, is to make her lots more hinding places. Not that there is anything wrong with what you have, but it may encourage her to move from one hide to another, so at least she IS moving about a bit? Again (yet another pet story... lol), I found my Royal Python used to sit under her branch all the time, and I NEVER saw her moving about. Then I bought her a load of fake silk plants and put them everywhere. Now she's up every day and oaming around as she feels more secure and less 'out in the open'!

I weight Herbie with just a normal pair of kitchen weighing scales (yes, I imagine you can pick some up cheap from Walmart). It's just a large bowl that sits on a digital scale, but analogue is fine. Just make sure it's large enough to comfortably fit your beardie in, so she won't want to try and escape all the time!

With regard to the lino, I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but it may be worth trying something else to give it a shot - just not sand or crushed walnut shell as these aren't particularly favoured by many keepers!! I've used aspen (which again has had mixed reports), and crushed corn-cobs, although I'm onto Repti-carpet now! But even trying a clean towel or something with a different texture to the lino might do the trick, and not require you to spend any money!!

- Emma

 

[Monkey]

Panacur is a very strong medication I had a 120 lbs rottweiler that got sick from it, was that what your beardie got piper? (I am not gonna try to spell that whole name out) if your vet says brumation don't exist I would suggest another vet. My dragon certinally is calming down and she isnt sick, but liek shes not taking to her greens, she will only perk up eat crickets, sleep for like ten days, poop, eat, sleep ten days.. WIth what your girl has been through she might go into a deeper brumation. Since I know you have taken the temps I dont have to worry about both the lights, it looks like it would be hot on both sides but you already verified that it isnt.

However, maybe you should find a specialised reptile vet in your area (unless ur dr is, but her comment about brumation makes me wonder since so many of us have seen it, me for the first time but mine aint sick I know for a fact), and get a third opinion. Just a thought..

On top of that the medicin might still be spooking in her body, esp if it was panacur, that ALONE can make her sick and she might need to get tested again to make sure she dont have organ failure this time.. Yes I am paranoid and I don't want to scare you but that's strong stuff if now that is what she got..

Im keeping fingers crossed for you, and don't give up, I think she will come around. I am getting a male home tonight that has the same issue yours does *lol* It will be a fight but it will be worth it.

Here's a link:
http://www.anapsid.org/resources/rxdose.html
so you can also see if you got too big of a doze or how much you overdozed, that alone might just put a big stress on her body all together.
I would say that maybe another blood work is in order to make sure that the OD didn't hurt too much.

Oh you didnt tell me how old your light was?? older than six months and you have to change it.

 

[kimmie]

Is it regular linoleum or the self stick kind? If it's the self stick - GET IT OUT NOW. I had that in when I first built Angie's viv and was told the adhesive on the linoleum could put off toxic fumes. I have shelf liner for now and plan on getting slate tiles later. Maybe her viv is too spacious and she's not feeling secure - not sure! You could try build a faux rock structure and make a cave part of it. This is what I made for Angie's viv - she hangs out most times on the far left or on a fake branch that I've attached a huge fake leaf to. Sometimes she sleeps on top of that left ledge area, sometimes on her leaf and sometimes in her cave.

You can't tell from this pic but this runs the length of her viv. But she doesn't go down the other end much if just to poop. I'm building another ledge almost identical except it won't have a bottom to it and won't go the whole length so I can put something else at that end.

Just don't give up on her yet. Snuggle with her LOTS! Wrap her up when she falls asleep at night and let her lay on your chest!