RE: Pumpkin Still not well Need immediate Iron help.

[waltersgirl]

I have messaged Tracie but in case someone else can help a bit before she gets a chance to respond. Pumpkin weighs about 445 grams. She needs black cherry juice as Tracie said but how much and how often? Also, she is SEVERELY anemic. In a months time she has gone from a hemocrit of 27 to 12 with no blood in stool or coming out her mouth so don't think she is bleeding internally. Apparently if it drops 2 more points she will die. Read on previous posts to do B12 complex, brewers yeast and bee pollen for iron deficiency but what are the best ways to administer and how much and how often? I have a bottle of injectable B12 complex, I just need to know if I go with the recommended normal dose every 3 days or should it be increased? In a panic right now as to how do I help her fast enough to save her. I am afraid right now. Quick help is needed.
Link to previous post. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=215003
Thanks!

 

[AHBD]

I'm not sure about the dose, but for now just give her the recommended amount of B-12 or maybe a bit more. Tracie will probably be on in a few hours to advise. Try not to panic too much [ I know , easy to say ] Humans can tolerate a much lower hematocrit than many Dr's thought, it's not likely that she will die from it going a bit lower and now you are going to bring it back up with the treatment. Hang in there !

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is she doing tonight?
I certainly hope she isn't bleeding internally somewhere or cancer, maybe. Though the blood test didn't indicate that any with the white cell count.
Her kidneys are being taxed for some reason, stress possibly from what is going on with her.
The injectable B12 you have, what strength is it, is there a dose recommended with it? Since it is an injectable, I would go with the every few days as it is strong.
The Black cherry juice is not toxic so you can give a good amount. I normally go with 15mg/kg but you don't need to be that exact right now. If it is concentrated, then give .5ml daily. The bee pollen & or brewer's yeast either one can be given daily for awhile to try & get the iron back up.
They are powders so they can be sprinkled on the food or mixed with a slurry.
Are her gums pink or white in color?
All of those can be given daily right now to see if that helps out.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie

 

[waltersgirl]

Her tongue and gums are more white than pink. The vet has 0.045ml by IM or SC on the bottle and it is 100mcg of B12/100mg B1/5mg B2/10mg B6/100mg Niacinamide all per ml. She has been awake everytime I check on her since her light went out. I picked her up and she is now asleep on my chest under the blanket. I know she needs to be under her heat emitter but I am just happy she went to sleep. I will put her in her cage in a bit and pet her until she doses back off like I have so many times in the last month. The white blood cell count is probably deceiving as she has been on Baytril for a month. I will send the pic I have from the vet of her test result in February that show her white cell count through the roof at 18.5 thousand. I asked the vet for them and she sent me a text of the results as she was not at the office but had them with her in the car waiting to hear back from the specialist she consults with on them.

 

[waltersgirl]

Can't find the cord to plug my phone in to the computer as easy as I would like so here they are

ALK. Phosphatase was 244 now 136
ALT was 17 now 10
AST was 14 now 5
CK was 590 now 230
LDH was 178 now 28
Albumin was 2.1 now 1.9
Cholesterol was 253 now 238
Glucose was 227 now 270
Calcium was 12.2 now 8.9
Phosphorus was6.3 now 3.3
Potassium was 2.8 now 4.2
Sodium was 149 now 154
A/G ratio was .08 now 1.2
Uric Acid was 2.7 now 9.1

WBC - EST was 17.5 -19.5 now 4.0 - 6.0
WBC Count was 18.5 now 5.0 corrected 2.6 *corrected for low hemocrit
HCT was 30 now 12 (specialist says <10 she will die)
Heterophils was 16 now 84
Lymphocytes was 34 now 11
Azurophil was 50 now 5
Absolute Heterophil was 2960 now 4200
Absolute Lymphocytes was 6290 now 550
Absolute Azurophil was 9250 now 250

Hopefully this will help you help me. Thanks again.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Shonna,

Based on those reductions, I would say that something internally is going wrong. I hope not internal bleeding, but possible. I would suggest an exploratory surgery but it may be risky, but you can talk to the vet about that. She may be too weak to support that.
Though if the numbers keep plummeting she wont make it either if she is bleeding internally from something. It could be a ruptured follicle or cyst, etc that is causing bleeding & or infection or peritonitis which is somewhat common, too & makes them very ill.
For now, try to continue with fluids & the supplements as much as you can get into her. Since her gums are white that is a large indication of infection causing anemia. She does not have parasites, correct?

Is her beard black?

Tracie

 

[waltersgirl]

No parasites or problems there. Float, smear and bacterial tests have been done on a fecal sample. Would an ultrasound tell us anything, before we go to exploratory?

 

[waltersgirl]

If she has a raging infection, won't exploratory surgery be even more risky? Her beard is black not as black as yesterday but still it is black.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

If she has an infection, it is risky. They need to find out if she has internal bleeding. Maybe they could do an ultrasound to see if anything is seen that way? That is less invasive/risky in her condition.

Tracie

 

[waltersgirl]

Vet is more concerned with getting her hemocrit back up then finding the cause. She doesn't believe she is bleeding internally as she thinks she would have died by now and there is no blood in stool or coming out her mouth. I don't know what is wrong with Pumpkin but I know we need to find the root cause or her iron level will just continue to drop. She seems a little alert...probably just because she is mad at me for giving her that nasty tasting liquid iron I take, I'd be mad too! Praying for my girl.

 

[AHBD]

How is Pumpkin today ? Is she eating ?

 

[waltersgirl]

Pumpkin is eating fine. She just has a black beard, doesn't seem to be sleeping well (always awake if I check on them and temps in the middle of the night and early morning), hides all day except when I put her in the hammock (she will stay for a little while), and her bloodwork shows she is severely anemic and has a high level of uric acid...major difference in just the last month. Worried about her but all I can do is pray and follow doctor orders and Tracie's recommendations.
Thanks for asking. I just wish I could do more.

 

[AHBD]

I really hope everything turns out O.K. You're doing everything that you can for Pumpkin.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How has she done today? Did you give the B12 injection?
I can't think of anything else to bring up the iron other than a meat source like chicken or turkey baby food. Plant sources are non heme sources so I would maybe try the chicken or turkey baby food as the iron is absorbed more readily to help bring up heme levels.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie

 

[waltersgirl]

She is shaking her tailfeathers like she is going to lay another clutch! Her blood work is not elevated where it should be for this so what happens if she does...How bad of shape will she be in? How do I stop her from doing this? This is clutch number 5 since New Years Eve...3 fertile and one infertile. She is going to kill herself trying to reproduce. I can't let her do that. I have to stop the cycle.