Questions About Proper Care

[AnthonysGotMilk]

UPDATE: I measured Mary Jane and she is 6 inches long as of 1/11/2016. Her weight is 8 grams.
I AM SO SORRY FOR THE WORDINESS OF THIS POST, I AM A CONCERNED OWNER AND WANT TO MAKE SURE I AM DOING THIS RIGHT FOR MY DRAGON. PLEASE, BARE WITH ME AND GIVE ME ANY INFORMATION THAT COULD BENEFIT THE WELL BEING OF MY DRAGON, I AM WILLING TO DO ANYTHING TO MAKE MY DRAGON LIVE A HAPPY, HEALTHY LIFE!

Hello, my name is Anthony and I have a bearded dragon that I purchased from PetSmart approximately a week ago. The store's lizard guy was extremely helpful and informed me about anything that I asked, but I still have lots of more questions about caring for my dragon because I am still a very new owner and I have never cared for a reptile before. Here is some information about my setup before we get started:

My terrarium is 30 gallons with a reptile carpet/mat type thing. On the cool side of my tank during day time it is usually around 75-80 degrees. I have a water dish which I change daily and fill with distilled water, a cave for my dragon to go into and rest or cool off in, two fake plants for decoration, and a fake cactus that is not pointy. I have a leafy vine type thing on the wall of the tank that is in the center that my dragon LOVES to climb on to rest, and she sleeps on it almost every night. Under that vine I have a feeding plate that I try to put salad in occasionally but she does not tend to eat that. On the hot side I have a very nice basking spot for her, and another fake cactus that is styled differently than the other.

On the cool side of my tank I have a Repti-Sun 10.0 UVB stationed outside of the tank that runs from 6 AM to 8 PM. On the right side of my tank I have a 24 hour 75 watt purple infrared spot bulb. I also have a 75 watt Zoo Med "Repti Basking Spot Lamp" that runs on the same 6 AM - 8 PM cycle as the cool side's bulb.

Daytime temps:
Cool side - ~75 degrees
Hot side - ~95 - 100 degrees
Note: I am not completely sure what the basking temperature is, but I am working on getting a temp gun to check this.

Nighttime temps:
Cool side - ~70 degrees
Hot side - ~80 degrees

Information about my dragon:
Note: I am not 100% sure of the gender, but I instantly named her Mary Jane when I got her before I even got home. If she turns out to be a boy, I am sticking with name!

I got my dragon at my local PetSmart, I got it from the Fancy Dragon cage but I now know that they tend to just put the same type of dragons as the others in that cage to price it for more if they had to feed them. I have never even considered minding this because no matter what I love my beardie as he/she is. They said that she was around 4 months old, but I honestly am not very sure of this because my postage scale reads 8 grams at the moment and from my understanding that is extremely light for a dragon that would be 4 months old. (It is possible that my scale is just very innacurate though!) I am going to measure her tomorrow, but she is currently asleep so I am not going to bother her slumber. :wink:

Information about feeding:
I came into this idea of owning a bearded dragon thinking that feeding would add up to maybe about $5-10 a week, but I seem to be spending a lot more on her. This is no problem at all by the way, just pointing it out! I began feeding her crickets that I got at the same PetSmart that I bought her at, but I switched to feeding her medium sized Dubia Roach Feeders that I purchase at my local PetCo because the PetSmart does not carry them. I would get smaller roaches for her, but that is the only size that they have. I do make sure that what I feed her is no bigger than her head though. The reason that I switched to the roaches was because the crickets are cannibalistic, they stink, and are all around annoyingly noisy and they jump. I am currently feeding her around 4-5 of these roaches a day which is adding up because I am getting them for around 25 cents per.

I try to feed her salad occasionally that consists of finely chopped carrots, and cabbage. She has never eaten the greens but she will sometimes eat the carrots.

With all of that said, I have some basic questions. Please answer any of these that you can, but also don't hesitate to even add in any suggestions based on the information that I gave in this post!

- Am I feeding her properly, and is there any basic schedule that you guys use on your baby/juvenile dragons that I can follow?
- Is my light setup healthy?
- Are my temperature readings suitable for my dragon?
- The roaches tend to try and hide under things in her cage and they are sometimes hard for me to clean out and hard for her to notice. Is it ideal to feed her in a separate cage such as a plastic bin?

Again, I am so sorry for all of the words but I am just trying to get every bit of information that I can to keep my dragon healthy.

Thanks a TON!
Sincerely,
Anthony

 

[Drache613]

Moved by Moderator from General to Health

 

[kingofnobbys]

Most obvious issue : ditch the purple globe , it's useless unless it's ACTUALLY a ceramic heat emitter
like http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/ceramic_heater.php , if it is, it needs to be put under the control of a thermostat (with a remote wired temperature sensor).

Keep offering grated/cut up veg and greens DAILY. I assure you , the dragon will nibble on some when you are not watching.

I'm on my second brace of hatchlings (my first were hatchings about 3.3 yrs ago = Rex and Puff, only recently lost Puff under tragic circumstances when he was operated on to remove what the vet thought was an abscess and found was a large aneurism on his left jugular , he never regained consciousness after the aneurism was drained and removed), and our 2 new (now 2 months old) hatchlings Peppa and Toothess.

I'm feeding them DAILY as follows '
30-35 day old crickets = small to medium sized crickets (6-8 each per day) that I gut load with RepCal adult beardie pellets + carrot + buk choy greens and every cricket is dusted with P free Ca powder in the am (usually 9-10am) , then I offer 4 medium sized silkworms (1-1.5 inch long) at 2-3pm and the salad + some softened Repcal Juvi beardie pellets + softened Vetafarm lizard pellets (I mix them together dry, add enough water to cover and let them soak) + grated carrot + cut up buk choy greens at about 4-5 pm.
My lights are timed to come on 6am, off 10pm.
My basking spot temp is 38oC and my hatchies have heat slab (a 7W heatpad sandwiched between 2 layers of ceramic wall tiles controlled by a switching thermostat set at 36-37oC to nap on during the day and sleep on at night if they chose.
No water bowl in with my hatchlings. I do give water but I mist them lightly as needed.
Both mine are in 100 Litre rearing tubs , no bedding , just a bit of paper towel ontop the heatslab and under the food dish.

Both mine have had a shed in the last week, and doubled in mass in the 3 weeks they have been with us.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Congratulations on your new dragon! Mary Jane is a great name, too!

Here is a nice feeding chart to help with variety & food ideas, etc for you:

http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

The 30 gallon tank size is ok for him/her to start out in. Pretty soon though, you will want to upgrade to a 55 or larger tank for more comfort as he grows. Ideally, a 75 gallon or larger is really the minimum size that they need as an adult.
Most of us don't use a water dish because they normally don't drink from standing water unless you work with them then you can train them to drink from a dish. If you do leave it in during the day, be sure to remove it at night so she wont accidentally fall asleep in it & drown.
Great, a temp gun will give you very accurate readings on the temperatures. The basking temperature needs to run in a range of 95-110 with a cooler end of around 78-82 roughly.
The heat mat that you have, wont need to be used during the day. They do much better with overhead heating instead of heating from below. If you need nighttime heating then you can turn the heat mat on. Do you have something in between the heat mat & her?

The purple basking light really doesn't need to be used, they like bright white light much better. Are you using the Reptisun 10 tube bulb correct & it is on top of the screen? How far is it from him?
Using just the regular basking spot light that you have is really all he should need as long as the temperatures are getting up to optimal readings.
To help save some money on feeders, you can order dubia roaches online, as well as try to start your own colony, too. It can get quite costly paying per cent for them in the stores!
You can try feeding her outside of the tank in a large plastic bin for ease of not losing insects in her tank. A lot of them enjoy eating in a bin & it works well, so you can give that a try. You can also try some small silkworms, butterworms, or calci/phoenix worms to give some variety.
What supplementation are you using for her? Do you have a separate calcium & vitamin supplement?
What do you have lining the bottom of the tank, sand, paper towels, tiles, etc?

It sounds like you are off to a great start! Be sure to post some pictures up of your tank setup too, just so we can take a look.

Tracie

 

[kingofnobbys]

Yep.... buying feeder insects in tubs from petshops is a very expensive option and should only be done IN EMERGENCIES , I buy my worms (mealworms, superworms, calcigents, silkworms) and crickets in bulk online by mailorder.
In my case the mealworms, superworms, calcigents and crickets are shipped by express post to me from Melbourne Vic (I am in Newcastle in NSW), and my last lot of sillworms came from Sydney, I have also bought silkworms from a breeder near Cairns in FN QLD (every worm arrived alive !).

I buy my insects usually every 2 or 3 weeks.

 

[AnthonysGotMilk]

Most obvious issue : ditch the purple globe , it's useless unless it's ACTUALLY a ceramic heat emitter
like http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/ceramic_heater.php , if it is, it needs to be put under the control of a thermostat (with a remote wired temperature sensor).

Keep offering grated/cut up veg and greens DAILY. I assure you , the dragon will nibble on some when you are not watching.

I'm on my second brace of hatchlings (my first were hatchings about 3.3 yrs ago = Rex and Puff, only recently lost Puff under tragic circumstances when he was operated on to remove what the vet thought was an abscess and found was a large aneurism on his left jugular , he never regained consciousness after the aneurism was drained and removed), and our 2 new (now 2 months old) hatchlings Peppa and Toothess.

I'm feeding them DAILY as follows '
30-35 day old crickets = small to medium sized crickets (6-8 each per day) that I gut load with RepCal adult beardie pellets + carrot + buk choy greens and every cricket is dusted with P free Ca powder in the am (usually 9-10am) , then I offer 4 medium sized silkworms (1-1.5 inch long) at 2-3pm and the salad + some softened Repcal Juvi beardie pellets + softened Vetafarm lizard pellets (I mix them together dry, add enough water to cover and let them soak) + grated carrot + cut up buk choy greens at about 4-5 pm.
My lights are timed to come on 6am, off 10pm.
My basking spot temp is 38oC and my hatchies have heat slab (a 7W heatpad sandwiched between 2 layers of ceramic wall tiles controlled by a switching thermostat set at 36-37oC to nap on during the day and sleep on at night if they chose.
No water bowl in with my hatchlings. I do give water but I mist them lightly as needed.
Both mine are in 100 Litre rearing tubs , no bedding , just a bit of paper towel ontop the heatslab and under the food dish.

Both mine have had a shed in the last week, and doubled in mass in the 3 weeks they have been with us.

Thank you for the detailed response! I also have a Zoo Med 100 Watt Nocturnal Infrared Heat Lamp, would this do the same as a ceramic heater and be better than my purple light? If so, do I just replace the purple one with it and have it on 24/7 or just at night?

 

[CooperDragon]

I wouldn't use that either because it emits visible light which can disrupt sleep. You're better off with a heat emitter or a heat projection bulb like these: http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Ceramic-Infrared-Emitter/dp/B001F9CV7K http://www.reptileuv.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=196

I would use it at night if the temperatures in the enclosure go below about 65 or so. If the temps stay above that then you don't need additional nighttime heat.

 

[AnthonysGotMilk]

Hello,

Congratulations on your new dragon! Mary Jane is a great name, too!

Here is a nice feeding chart to help with variety & food ideas, etc for you:

http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

The 30 gallon tank size is ok for him/her to start out in. Pretty soon though, you will want to upgrade to a 55 or larger tank for more comfort as he growsbv . Ideally, a 75 gallon or larger is really the minimum size that they need as an adult.
Most of us don't use a water dish because they normally don't drink from standing water unless you work with them then you can train them to drink from a dish. If you do leave it in during the day, be sure to remove it at night so she wont accidentally fall asleep in it & drown.
Great, a temp gun will give you very accurate readings on the temperatures. The basking temperature needs to run in a range of 95-110 with a cooler end of around 78-82 roughly.
The heat mat that you have, wont need to be used during the day. They do much better with overhead heating instead of heating from below. If you need nighttime heating then you can turn the heat mat on. Do you have something in between the heat mat & her?

The purple basking light really doesn't need to be used, they like bright white light much better. Are you using the Reptisun 10 tube bulb correct & it is on top of the screen? How far is it from him? as long as the temperatures are getting up to optimal readings.
To help save some money on feeders, you can order dubia roaches online, as well as try to start your own colony, too. It can get quite costly paying per cent for them in the stores!
You can try feeding her outside of the tank in a large plastic bin for ease of not losing insects in her tank. A lot of them enjoy eating in a bin & it works well, so you can give that a try. You can also try some small silkworms, butterworms, or calci/phoenix worms to give some variety.
What supplementation are you using for her? Do you have a separate calcium & vitamin supplement?
What do you have lining the bottom of the tank, sand, paper towels, tiles, etc?

It sounds like you are off to a great start! Be sure to post some pictures up of your tank setup too, just so we can take a look.

Tracie

Thank you so much for this feedback!

I am trying to dust her food with calcium like once a week but I am going to start doing it every feeding as I read up a bit more on this. I am currently getting a bit worried because she is having a very stubborn appettite! I put maybe 4 or 5 medium sized dubias in her cage for her, came back and she had only eaten one. Keep in mind that she did not eat much at all yesterday and ate nothing today until that one dubia. I'm not sure if it's relocation stress because she has been with us for a little over a week and she is totally fine with me holding her, she even jumps into my hand occasionally.

The Reptisun that I use is actually the mini size compact fluorescent and it is outside of the cage, but I understand that it is all that she needs and a bigger one isn't necessary, am I wrong about this?

After reading your post I took her water bowl out, can you give me some pointers on misting? I have a spray bottle but it has a "stream" and "spray" setting. The spray setting is just not a mist, it just kinda shoots water in a larger area. I tried to use that on her once but she seemed to get pissed, I am sure that is because it is drops and I didn't have an actual mist bottle.

I have also been considering starting a dubia colony like you said but I am trying to plan this out. All I need is a container, egg cartons, water crystals, protein bedding, and the dubias, right? I know that you also need it to be like 85 degrees for them or something so I was wondering if I was going to need some sort of heat bulb for them.

Also, when I said carpet/mat type thing I didn't mean a heating mat I was just talking about the reptile mat that I have instead of a substrate.

 

[kingofnobbys]

If you've only just brought little M-J home , don't fret too much if she's not eating much in the way of greens (I cut my Buk Choy (the green leafy part) up with a pair of scissors to strips about 5mm wide) or grated veg , or live insects in the first week, as she'll be undergoing RELOCATION STRESS and will need about a week to adjust to her new enclosure, your household and the new sounds and sights inside the room the enclosure in housed in, and of cause new people (you and your family) and a different feeding schedule.

You could resort back to small/medium crickets and try handfeeding (once per day), just a 1 - 2 crickets , essentially, hold the tip her tail and let her sit comfortably in your partly open hand in a location that's quiet and escape proof (in case he leaps out of your hand and gets onto the floor) , give her a bit of a very gentle petting on the top of the head and back, maybe a tickle under the chin, and then offer her a cricket held between your thumb and finger tips, gently rub the cricket who you squeezed a little of the white insides out of against her snout / tip of her lips, she'll likely lick off the gooie stuff and if you can get the timing right she'll take the rest of the cricket from you. This is great way of building trust and establishing a bond and getting her to associate being handled by you with a nice experience (getting food).
You can quietly praise her if she takes the cricket /s you give by hand, and you might gently pet her while she's eating it and just after it.
My routine for the first feeding of the day for Peppa (F , 2months old) and Toothless (M , 2months old) is to do the above, I offer 2 - 3 medium gut loaded crickets each by hand, and then they go back into their now clean and bug free rearing tubs .
(Peppa and Toothless refused to eat in a separate feeding tub so I am feeding them in their rearing tubs and leaving the insects and salad and greens in overnight , then I capture any remaining bugs and spot cleaning (all the furnature comes out for cleaning and make it easier to recapture the crickets remaining))
Then they go back into their tubs and I deposit 9-10 medium crickets (all dusted with Ca) in with the hatchlings .

You could also try some mealworms (but only as a treat) for the handfeeding /bonding exercise , same approach , nip off the worms head, and when you have M-J sitting comfortably in your hand , squeeze out some of the worm onto your finger tip and deposit it on her nose, she'll lick it off and you can then trick her into taking a cricket that's also been squeezed to get some of the innards out.
Some insect proteins and fats is better than none.

Also another alternative is calcigets (the lavae of the soldier fly) or maggots , or silkworms (excellent food for lizards !!!).

The next feed is 2-3 hours later (some medium silkworms) , and the final feed is the greens and grated veg (about 5pm).

Being so young I prefer that they eat mostly insects , the greens and grated veg + some soaked /softened juvi beardie and lizard pellets are offered to :
1) let them graze on these , both already like their greens and veg'
2) give the crickets a food source and source of water , and to draw them out so the hatchlings can see and eat them.

Seems to be working OK.

I only pet Peppa and Toothless in their tubs after the first feeding , if they are basking or easy to reach.

I'll increase contact time gradually as they become more comfortable with being handled.

What is the overnight temperature in the room where MJ's enclosure is housed like ?
If it gets under 20oC , she will benefit greatly from overnight heating via ceramic heat emitter on both a timer and a thermostat (you'll need to position the temp probe near where she sleeps). Perhaps she'll enjoy a heatpad which is sandwiched between 2 layers of ceramic tiles and also controlled by a thermostat (placed in the enclosure under her hide). All my skinks and dragons love their nice warm "heat-slabs" and I run my 5W and 7W heatslabs 24/7.

 

[kingofnobbys]

PS : MJ is the same size my Puff and Rex were when I brought home as 5 weeks old hatchlings.

 

[AnthonysGotMilk]

PS : MJ is the same size my Puff and Rex were when I brought home as 5 weeks old hatchlings.

LOL! Do you know the weight that they were at the time?

 

[kingofnobbys]

PS : MJ is the same size my Puff and Rex were when I brought home as 5 weeks old hatchlings.

LOL! Do you know the weight that they were at the time?

Sure do. First thing I did when we got them home was weight each of the in the little tub they travelled in, then I weighted their travel tubs less the hatchie, hence I had their starting weights, and I knew their ages (the breeder told me their hatching dates).

Thought everyone did this , best way to monitor a little lizards growth is weighing them regularly.

 

[AnthonysGotMilk]

PS : MJ is the same size my Puff and Rex were when I brought home as 5 weeks old hatchlings.

LOL! Do you know the weight that they were at the time?

Sure do. First thing I did when we got them home was weight each of the in the little tub they travelled in, then I weighted their travel tubs less the hatchie, hence I had their starting weights, and I knew their ages (the breeder told me their hatching dates).

Thought everyone did this , best way to monitor a little lizards growth is weighing them regularly.

How much did they weigh?

 

[kingofnobbys]

PS : MJ is the same size my Puff and Rex were when I brought home as 5 weeks old hatchlings.

LOL! Do you know the weight that they were at the time?

Sure do. First thing I did when we got them home was weight each of the in the little tub they travelled in, then I weighted their travel tubs less the hatchie, hence I had their starting weights, and I knew their ages (the breeder told me their hatching dates).


How much did they weigh?

Rex (F 6 weeks old) = 7g
Puff (M sibling) = 8g.
Both were 11g at 2 months old.

BTW
Toothless (M weeks old) = 11g , most recently (on Saturday @ 2 months old) = 20.9g
Peppa (F sibling) = 13.9g , and 24.6g (on Saturday).