Question regarding Brumation (I read the article already)

[smurfthebeardie]

Smurf my 5.5 year old beardie seems to have just gone into brumation for the first noticeable time. In the past Smurf has showed signs of it but it never lasted more than 3 weeks or so. This time Smurf's been refusing to eat for about 3 months and he's lazier than usual so it fits brumation.

He seemed to be coming out of it recently, being more active and getting antsy and black bearding fairly often and for extended periods. That was about two weeks ago. He still isn't eating however and yesterday he seemed to lose the usual energy he has had in the past. He won't bask, won't eat and he isn't as alert as he should be. He also lost a good deal of weight.

We watered him nearly daily and he drank so I'm not overly concerned about that and he has had reasonably well timed bowel movements (once or twice before/into the brumation and two or three times since he seemed to come out of it.) It's been primarily urate since he hasn't eaten much. We have tempted him into maybe 2 crickets and one leaf of kale since.

Unfortunately I don't have all the details as I was at college when this started and it only ended when I got back on break. I'll bug family for the details as needed.
Should I be concerned? Does he need a vet visit? Any other thoughts?

 

[brittani299]

Hello

Can you answer these questions

How old is your dragon?
How long have you had your dragon?
How long is your dragon?
What is the sex of your dragon?
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in?
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank?
Do you use UVB lights?
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb?
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
How old is your UVB bulb?
How close can your dragon get to the UVB?
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? Is it a white or colored bulb?
Di you have any type of night time heat source (ceramic heat emitter, colored bulb, etc)?
How long are lights on each day?
What are the basking temps?
What is the cool side temp?
What is the night time temp?
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun?
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps?
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad?
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific.
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)?
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc?
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them?
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)?
Do you bathe your dragon? How often?
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath?
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done?
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon?

 

[smurfthebeardie]

How old is your dragon? 5.5 years
How long have you had your dragon? 5.5 years
How long is your dragon? 18 inches
What is the sex of your dragon? Likely female based on behavior but not for certain.
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? Custom tank 4' x 2', lights are just about 18 inches above the basking spot.
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? Brown paper (like what you would wrap a package with)
Do you use UVB lights? Yes
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? Fluorescent tube
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)? Reptisun 10.0 UVB 36"
How old is your UVB bulb? About a year, too old. I've been trying to replace it but the last two I've ordered have arrived broken.
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? About 18 inches
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? Is it a white or colored bulb? Yes, two white bulbs current wattage unknown. Temperatures on top of basking spot around 90 degrees F.
Di you have any type of night time heat source (ceramic heat emitter, colored bulb, etc)? Ceramic heat emitter
How long are lights on each day? 12 hours
What are the basking temps? 92 F
What is the cool side temp? 65 F
What is the night time temp? Last time I knew it was around 65-70 F
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? Temp gun
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? Top of the log Smurf sits on
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? No
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. Crickets fed with Fluker's orange cricket feed (combination food/water cubes).
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? Offer crickets in the mid morning and kale or other veggies throughout the day.
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? Yes, see above
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? Gut load crickets with calcium powder with D when feeding them
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? He was before brumation and he has gone recently
Do you bathe your dragon? How often? No
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? We spray around him and we dribble water on his nose which he does drink
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? When I got him he got a cleared for parasites and problems. He hasn't been exposed to other animals or threats except food so he should still be clear but it may be a possibility.
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? No

 

[brittani299]

I would room the basking up to 100. 92 is kinda low. I would also stop misting him. I would bath him 2-3 times a week for 20 times. Beardies can absorb water through their vent. The main problem could be the UVB. They should be replaced every 6 months. I would try to change the light ASAP and see if that helps. I am pretty sure it should. Also I will attach a link to sexing your beardie.

 

[brittani299]

Link for sexing http://www.beardeddragon.org/articles/sexing/

 

[smurfthebeardie]

Thanks. I've got his temperature up to about 100 at his basking point and I found a bulb that has had less use for a temporary solution. I've got two bulbs on order, the first of which should be here on Monday.

After his bath he seemed to improve quite a bit, but only for about an hour and then he seemed to get more lethargic and weak. It seems overnight he may have gone to the bathroom where he sat and continued to sit there until this morning. I got him cleaned up. It was almost 100% urate.

I offered both veggies, supers and crickets but he didn't even move to check out what was being presented. His eyes are usually closed or partially closed. I'm afraid he's not long for this life. As far as life span is concerned his treatment while in my care and my parents should have been good enough for a much longer life with the exception of the bulb not being changed recently enough. Early on he had a bad UVB bulb but he didn't seem to have any issues, especially after we got him on the good one. Before we got him he was kept in a tank that wasn't really warm enough (basking at 85 maybe) and the UVB was questionable at best. He was also kept with maybe 10-20 other beardies in a moderately large tank with a sand substrate and crickets that were most likely too large for him to handle. Could this have stuck with him his whole life and being causing part of the problem now? Or could his unknown genetics be part of the problem?

 

[brittani299]

I would message Drache613 (tracie) she is a monitor on here and knows a lot. She might know.

 

[smurfthebeardie]

Thanks, will do.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Did you figure out the sex of your dragon?
That is great you got the temperatures bumped up to around 100. Were you able to get a new UVB tube ordered also?
Since he is not eating, you will need to intervene. You can get some chicken or turkey baby food with squash or sweet potato baby food to feed him. You can use a plastic dropper or syringe to drip onto his nose. You can also look into some critical care too for a highly nutritious food supplement.

I recommend a blood test to determine his calcium levels, liver & kidney values, too. Is there a vet you know of around?
Is he displaying a black beard?
Genetics can play a role in health, absolutely. Inbred dragons can have trouble but it is hard to determine if you don't know the history of them.
I would try to get him into a vet as soon as possible with him being so lethargic. They can go dowhill rapidly.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[smurfthebeardie]

Smurf doesn't have a very distinct bump to sex with, but I would say female. Smurf's had an almost constant black beard for the past few days, but she isn't bobbing. The bulb is on its way and might be here today or tomorrow.

Edit: Vet said most likely male. We had to put him to sleep because of his condition. He had a tumor that was blocking the majority of his stomach or was centered in his stomach. The best chance he would have had would have been about a 30% chance for 2-4 more years with surgery by a specialist more than 2 hours away which would have cost (vet's rough estimate) over $1000.

R.I.P. Smurf and thanks for the assistance. It certainly made his last few days more comfortable.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am very sorry you lost Smurf, that is so devastating. It is never easy losing a family member.
My sincere condolences to you.


Tracie

 

[AHBD]

I just want to say how very sorry I am about your boy Smurf. I know you're devastated, and I hope that you are comforted, even just a little, by knowing that others are thinking of you and hurt for you as well.

 

[smurfthebeardie]

Thanks guys. It does help.

If there's a mod passing through feel free to close this if desired. It really isn't relevant for health anymore.

 

[brittani299]

I am sorry for your loss