Possible semi brumation in summer?

[DopplerMel2000]

Hi all,

I posted in the health section a month or so ago about my 1 year old boy not eating much and being lazy. Well, it's still going on. He eats maybe 1 or 2 superworms every other day and I haven't seen him eat his greens for well over a month. Once in a while, he'll take a blueberry out of my hand and eat it but then that's it. I'm a little worried he hasn't had any calcium or vitamin intake since I sprinkle those on the greens...but he won't eat it. I've tried changing the veggies and greens up too just to see if that would work and nothing.

My question is, it's Summer....do beardies go into brumation in the summer? He's never brumated before since I only had him for a year (he was only a month or so old when I got him last July). He's not necessarily sleeping a lot, but he does seem to want to stay on the cooler side more and he's just...lazy. He has not lost weight though (that's not for certain without an actual scale but he feels exactly the same) and he's pooing every time I give him a bath twice a week (they're little poos, but they look healthy). I took a poo sample to my vet about a month ago though just to make sure and it came out negative for any parasites.

I've been told on here my temps and viv setup is fine, and I have a good UVB light. Everything has been the same in there for going on 6 months now and it's just been the last month and a half he has not been eating. Could this be a semi brumation even in summer months like this? :dontknow:

 

[diamc]

Hi, sorry to hear that your beardie is concerning you. He's been acting this way for about a month? If it's been going on that long, I would say that it isn't relating to brumation as this is the wrong time of year. If it was September, then that could possibly be why he is acting this way.

I know you said you want over the temps & setup info previously, but could you just answer a couple of questions here so we can make sure that something doesn't need a little adjustment?

What are the basking SURFACE, warm side & cool side temps and what type of thermometer are you using?

I imagine you have a Repti-Sun fluorescent tube? How old is this bulb?

Also, how often are you bathing him and offering oral fluids?

 

[DopplerMel2000]

What are the basking SURFACE, warm side & cool side temps and what type of thermometer are you using?

I imagine you have a Repti-Sun fluorescent tube? How old is this bulb?

Also, how often are you bathing him and offering oral fluids?

I'm using one of those zoomed thermostats with the humidity gage on it too. It's about 105-110 under basking and about 80-85 on the cooler side.

Yep, I have the reptisun terrarium hood with a 5.0 high output UVB tube bulb. I was talking to some other people about this earlier today and they seem to think I should get a 10.0 instead of a 5.0 in there? I had someone tell me a few months back that the high output 5.0 bulb was just as good as the regular 10.0 so I figured the bulb I was using was ok. I'm going to be doing that soon. the bulb it's self is only about 4 months old.

I bathe him twice a week and leave him in there at least 10-15 mins for him to get hydrated. Hopefully that's good. He JUST started drinking water from my water sprayer the other day! I've never seen him do that before. He hasn't wanted anymore since though.

I just find it so odd that he hasn't lost weight during this whole time of not eating much. Sometimes I wonder if he is eating some of his greens sometimes but I just might not be seeing it while I'm at work, I'll come home and the pile has shrunk a little but the greens themselves shrink up over the day so it's hard to tell! LOL But I was watching him a lot over this weekend and never went near his greens. I usually leave out collards (he used to love them) but I switched to some escarole to try and entice him with something different, and no change.

 

[diamc]

Hi, it sounds like you may be using a round gauge (dial) thermometer? If so, those can be at least 20 degrees off so would be a good idea to get either an infrared temperature gun or a digital thermometer with a long wire & probe end as those are the only 2 ways to get accurate readings. If I misunderstood and you're using one of them now, I apologize.

If the basking SURFACE temp is getting up to 110, that is the temp that a baby would need and I suggest you try to lower the basking log or rock or switching to a lower wattage bulb and see how he acts then. Since he's not really basking, that tells me that he is avoiding it because it's too hot. And if he's on the cool side a lot, he's not getting the heat he needs to give him energy and an appetite plus he's not getting the supplements he needs.

Good that he doesn't seem to have lost any weight, would be a good idea to pick up a scale to keep an eye on it. Great that you were able to rule out any parasites. You might want to think about increasing the baths to 3 to 4 times a wk in case he is a little dehydrated. Must have been cute seeing him drink from the water sprayer. :mrgreen: Maybe he will do that again soon. Will he drink water or diluted juice off his nose? If so, you could add a pinch of the calcium or vitamins (depending on day to use either) to some juice or water & try to get it into him that way.

Since he's only a yr old, he still needs quite a bit of protein as they continue to grow until about 2 yrs old. Only eating 1 or 2 supers every other day isn't enough. Have you tried any other feeders to see if they will entice him?

Is the 5.0 HO bulb on top of the screen or mounted inside? What is the distance of it?

I still tend to think that the temps are the main issue so once we get the clarification on the thermometer, we can discuss more, ok?

 

[DopplerMel2000]

This is his setup right now (I tried giving him a little more of a "hide" with the washcloth...he seemed to like it under there. It also blocks the light at night from us lol!) I think I'm definitely going to invest in a better thermometer...20 degrees difference is a lot! I've heard a lot of different things about the temperature of an adult so that's good to know that it could be too hot for him! I think I'll also try a 50w instead of the 75w I'm using now maybe that will make a difference you think?

It was ADORABLE when he was drinking that water! :love10: adding vitamins to the water is a great idea! He seems to enjoy licking things off his nose. I made an organic strawberry and banana smoothie he drank right from the spoon before so I could add the vitamins in something like that too! I'm thinking about trying some organic baby food so he can get something in him for now! Think that's a good idea?

I've tried butterworms, waxworms (used to be his favorite treat! I called them his "candy" since they're only ok in small amounts lol), and dubias (I got a good colony going now since he hasn't eaten anymore off haha) and he seems more interested in the supers right now so I figure I might as well stick with that he'll eat for now. I won't do crickets again because he never seemed very interested after he had the pinworms over the winter...and I have a feeling they could have been responsible for that....my vet seemed to agree.

Thanks so much for your advice. It worries me he's not getting the protein he should be for a still growing beardie. I had no idea they kept going till 2 years! I'm going to focus on tackling this temperature first I think and try the vitamins in anything he WILL eat.

 

[diamc]

That's a nice looking setup, very neat & uncluttered. He looks quite proud laying there. The washcloth is a good idea, hopefully he won't want to spend a lot of time under it. Bet it will be a good area for him to sleep in overnight though.

If you're getting a reading of between 105 to 110 where the thermometer is on the glass, the basking surface temps is definitely hotter.

If you have a Walmart, Lowe's or Home Depot near you, they have the AcuRite brand probe thermometer. Here's where you can see what it looks like: http://www.amazon.com/Chaney-Instruments-Acu-Rite-Thermometer-Humidity/dp/B001BO8CUE/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1405906923&sr=8-3&keywords=chaney+probe+thermometer It costs about $12.00 and will also give you a humidity level which is good to know. The clock readout at the top can be changed to degrees to give you the cool side temp at the same time. I'll explain how you use it. You place the probe end so that it is resting on (touching) the basking log and the thermometer part way over on the bottom of the cool side, wait about 45 min to an hr for the temps to stop rising, then the "out" reading will be the basking surface temp and the "in" reading for the cool side.

You could try the 50w bulb and see how he acts then but would definitely get another thermometer as soon as you can so you don't have to guess.

Yes, you could certainly pick up some baby food, to help with his protein intake, you can use chicken or turkey and then mix in a little squash or sweet potato. You can mix a pinch of calcium in that too as he should still be getting calcium 5 days a wk with vitamins the other 2 days. Bet he did like the smoothie, gee, I would have liked that too. :lol: You could also use diluted 100% juices (no sugar added) like apple, grape, cranberry or cherry, dilute with 3 parts water to 1 part juice.

Other feeders you could try are horn worms or silkworms. Here's a very reasonable place to get them: www.lindasgonebuggie.com and she is great to deal with. The orders arrive here in NY from Indiana in just 2 days.

Let us know how it all works out & good luck.

 

[DopplerMel2000]

Thank you so much for your kind words and advice!!! I'll be getting that thermometer as soon as I can!

He used to love hornworms but I haven't tried that in a while so I'll go pick some up at the local reptile store near me that carries them sometimes. He wasn't too excited about silkworms in the past but I might try some of those again soon too...I always read they are some of the best staples! That site you recommended looks like great prices too!

 

[diamc]

Let us know how it all works out.

 

[AMT]

My dragon is doing the same exact thing. Been about two months know he is also just past a year old and this is his first time doing anything like this. He stopped eating greens and bugs, he is staying in the hide on the cool side for days at a time and he is not losing any weight either. He comes out like once every two weeks to check his tank out I guess to make sure that things are as he left them. I catch him during those out times and bath him and once he is bathed he stays out maybe one additional night and he might eat one or two bugs and then its right back to his hide for couple more weeks. I changed out his UVB bulb in case that was causing any issue it was about five months old so it was time anyway -- I use the 10 watt repti buld. I also lowered the heat bulb for the summer as its warmer so using a 50 watt down from a 75 -- still gives him basking spot of around 95 degrees (I use a digital meter for temp). He has a 40 gal tank so enough room for hot and cool side (cool stays around 75). I was originally concerned but I feel the same way that he is just brumating at a odd time of the year -- he was just at the vet a month prior and it was a good check up so I do not believe its health related that I can tell. This made me crazy when it first started even though I had read on this forum about brumating dragons but I was still concerned because its a strange thing in that they don't eat, they don't poop, and they don't really move around much during this time and its long periods of time -- he seems fine otherwise so I am letting him do his thing hoping he will come out of it soon. My leopard Geeko also did the same thing for three months of time just prior to my dragon (first time for him to) and this was back in earlier Feb and he came out of his in May so they stay in the same room wondering if it could be the natural lighting in the room or something making them think its later in the year?

Anyway good luck with your dragon and I just wanted to pass along that at least one other dragon is doing the same thing in June/July.

 

[DopplerMel2000]

Thanks so much for sharing! It's always good to know you're not alone when it comes to our babies doing strange things that worry us.

I haven't yet gotten the thermometer, but I did replace my 5.0 UVB with a 10.0 and I also replaced my 75w basking bulb with a 50w. We rearranged some things in his viv so that the basking light turns on directly over his hammock, where he seems to be spending more time at (especially just staying there when he wakes up). I'm hoping by him warming up it'll stimulate more of an appitite.

I went and got some organic baby food (sweet potato and blueberry apple) and I sprinkled some calcium powder on a spoon and he licked it up pretty good. It's almost like he wants to just be spoon fed! I'll take what I can get right now though especially if he's eating it.

I was looking back on some older pictures, and it does look like he has lost some weight. Not much, but it's noticeable.

I'm going to get some hornworms tomorrow to see if he'll eat any. He used to LOVE them. It's been so difficult getting to stores lately with everything going on that I think it'll be easier to order a thermometer online. That's what my next step is but If things don't get better within a week or so I think it might be time to call the vet.

Again, thanks for sharing AMT, I hope you're beardie gets better soon too! I gotta get a little scale so I can start weighing him because I didn't think he was losing weight either but I'll be willing to bet he has. If you don't have a scale you should look into one too just to be sure! Please let me know if you have any luck with anything you try!

 

[DopplerMel2000]

Good news!

Rex has been gobbling up his hornworms and wax worms! I went and got 5 hornworms from my reptile shop just to see if he would eat them (I didn't want to buy a whole cup online if he wasn't going to) and he was very excited! I immediately ordered a cup online from greatlakeshornworm.com. Haven't used them before but heard good things on this forum.

He also seems to have a little more energy. I've been able to spoonfeed his vitamins in the organic baby food still too. I'm not sure if the new 10.0 UVB and the lower wattage basking bulb was the trick but he's definitely showing some improvement!

He does seem to be straining quite a bit in the bath when he's pooping....Not sure if that's something to worry about or just keep my eyes on? He's getting it out but it's like he has more in there that won't come out? I'm hoping that will get better with more hydration and food. :?

 

[diamc]

That's great news that he enjoyed the horns and that he had a little more energy. Is he basking longer than he was?

Great too that the 10.0 seems to have helped as well as lowering the wattage of the basking bulb. Were you able to get the probe thermometer? If so, how did you make out with the temps?

With more hydration (baths & oral fluids) as well as basking frequency will hopefully help with the pooping situation. Wouldn't want him to get a prolapse from straining so good hydration will help him out with that.

Thanks for the update.

 

[DopplerMel2000]

Yes he does seem to be basking more now. I still haven't picked up probe thermometer...money is pretty tight lately and when I was at Petsmart they seemed to be a little more pricey so I still need to get to Walmart. I might have to wait till I get paid again after having bought everything I did for him so far but I will be getting one soon just to be absolutely sure. The basking temperatures were down more towards the 100-105 mark when I checked it with the one I still have though. I'll be doing a lot more bathing until he seems to not be straining so much! Thanks again for everyone's help!!

 

[diamc]

All sounds good. Happy to hear he is doing better all the way around.