Possible mouth growth or liver problems

[steveyrockstar]

Hi there, back in February I created a thread about how my bearded dragon had lost his appetite since October. He was eating 1-2 bugs a day, if that. Various explanations were suggested from different sources, the most common one being that he was brumating.

However, as the weather got warmer, my beardie's appetite didn't pick up. Also I was very concerned by the faces he pulled when he ate something and the amount of lip licking he did ("errr, that tastes funny"). Also the inside of his mouth appeared to be very yellow. And he doesn't eat salad at all now.

So I finally took him to the vet yesterday. The vet reckons he might have either have an internal growth in his mouth, likely a fungal one, which is making it very uncomfortable for him to eat, or he might have far more serious underlying problems, specifically with his liver. However, in order to find this out, he needs to be sedated so she can take a look inside his mouth. He also needs to be X-rayed.

Just for doing those checks, I'm being charged £200 ($280), and that's before any medication would start. And that's if the problem is treatable (I fear liver problems would ultimately be terminal). The vet warned that the whole thing will cost me a few hundred pounds.

I'm a total loss of what to do. My beardie is only 20months old and I love him to bits. But I'm fearful of being guided into an expensive journey that I can ill afford, and which may end in heartbreak anyway. As cruel as it sounds, the people in my reptile shop who I trust immensely don't think I should proceed with the checks and just look after him as best as I can. We agreed that I should ask the vet about putting Arturo on the medication for a fungal growth and to see if that works.

So my first questions to everyone here is does anyone have any experience of these type of problems that my vet has highlighted? And if so, what is the likely consequence and treatment? Any advice or insight that anyone could give would be ENORMOUSLY appreciated.

As it stands I've asked the vet to call me back to talk me through each of the possible diagnosis and the implications/expense of each.

Thanks!!!

 

[CooperDragon]

The vet bills can definitely add up but that's the cost of being responsible for an animal. Just do the best with what you have though. Does your vet have experience with bearded dragons? That makes all the difference in the world. My boys have never needed to be sedated for x-rays or for a mouth check. One of my guys even had a procedure done for his stomatitis (mouth rot) without sedation. You can open their mouths by wrapping them up and propping them on a table (or similar). Hold him in one hand with his tail facing you and his head facing you, body in a C shape. Using the thumb of the hand holding him, pull his beard (gently but with constant pressure) down toward his neck. He will likely resist at first but eventually open his mouth. You should be able to hold it open this way for a while to get a good look inside and your other hand will remain free. If you see any issue around the gums (missing teeth, receded gums, lesions, etc then it may indicate a problem with his mouth which is causing discomfort as suggested. The vet can also take a swab of his mouth and grow a culture to determine if there is a fungal or bacterial infection. I would have this done first before proceeding with medication so you can choose one that is effective against what is in there (if anything). A blood test may reveal issues with the liver or kidneys. An x-ray may reveal bone decay or any structural problems but it's hard to say. A lot of it comes down to how experienced your vet is. I would proceed with testing but keep in mind the purpose of each test and do what is logical and would yield the most valuable results first.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I completely agree. The first two tests I would recommend would be a blood test to see what the kidneys & liver are functioning at & then a swabbing of the mouth to determine if the growth is fungal or bacterial in nature.
Is he eating anything at all?
Is he losing weight or maintaining his weight? I would recommend trying to feed soft foods such as critical care & a baby food mix so he gets his nutrition. If his mouth is yellow, then that can indicate liver issues.
Using milk thistle or serrapeptase can help with liver function for him & boosting his immune system.

Let us know how things go. I would be happy to look over the blood test results if you would like, once you get them done & get a copy.

Tracie

 

[steveyrockstar]

Many thanks for the replies folks - very helpful.

CooperD - are you suggesting that a vet should be able to do these checks without sedating the animal. Therefore do you think I'm paying unnecessary expense for something that another vet might be able to do? This was the vet recommended to me by my local reptile store, but I could certainly look round for another. I did go white when I was told how much it would cost just to check his mouth. Paying for treatment is one thing, but just to examine him...

I've actually asked the vet to contact me later this week so I can ask for more information about exactly what checks they are undertaking, the possible diagnosis, and the implications of each. Drache613 - I will enquire about whether a blood test was one of the tests they're planning to do (and if not, why not).

I will keep you posted!

You asked if he eats anything at all and what his weight is like - I've not seen him eat salad for a long time (although I make it available to him every day), but he eats a few morio worms or locusts every now and again. He normally eats one with relish but then licks his lips for ages with an odd look on his face and won't eat any more. I thought he just didn't like the supplement powder at first!

However, despite everything, he's actually held his weight and he's also quite active during the day. The vet said he looked healthy on the outside, but obviously would need to do X-rays/tests to find out if there was anything untoward internally.

S

 

[CooperDragon]

I was just commenting based on my experience. Neither of my dragons has been sedated for an x-ray or for a mouth swab or mouth exam. In my opinion a mouth exam should be included in the regular exam cost. If a swab is done, then it will be extra charge for the culture/cytology. Same for an x-ray or blood work. The cost of this seems to vary quite a bit from vet to vet so I can't say for sure how much it will cost you. I would definitely get more information about the tests that are to be done and why, and the cost of each test so there are no surprises. As mentioned, a mouth culture and blood work would likely be the most telling in this case and what I'd do first along with a visual mouth inspection which should be part of the regular exam.

 

[SDragon]

Where in the UK are you? I would use a uk forum for a few vet recomendations in your area.

It's fair for the vet to charge for investigative work but important it is cost effective (swabbing the mouth during a consultation doesn't seem unreasonable. The advice to focus on the least invasive tests first makes most sense, not least as sedation is not risk free. I think the questions you plan to ask make sense.

 

[steveyrockstar]

Thanks guys, this is exceptionally helpful. I live in Leigh-on-Sea in Essex. The vet I was reccommended was Earls Hall vets in Southend. The vet tried to check his mouth but she couldn't keep it open long enough in order to inspect it properly and she said that he would need light sedation for a thorough inspection.

As you say, I'll ask some more up-front questions when she calls this week, and if I'm not satisfied, I'll see if I can find a different vet in the area who is experienced with reptiles.

Thanks!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is she doing today?
Let us know how things go with the vet on the phone & what tests you decide to get done.
She should not need any anesthesia just to get a mouth swabbing, an x-ray or blood test.
I am happy to hear though that she has held her weight pretty well & still is eating.
The cost is so variable, that is for sure. Keep us posted on her.

Tracie

 

[steveyrockstar]

Thanks, he's seemed pretty well for the last 6 months, so don't really notice any change from day to day. He's friendly and active and his weight isn't bad. He just doesn't eat much. He'll eat a locust or a worm and then lick his lips for ages with a puzzled look on his face and won't eat anymore.

There's clearly some irritation with his mouth which is why he doesn't appear to be eating. Hoping it's a straightforward fungal infection and nothing serious with his liver.

Still waiting for the vet to get back to me with details of the tests. All the other vets who have been recommended for treating reptiles are miles away and I don't drive

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Poor guy, hopefully it is nothing serious. A fungal infection in the mouth should hopefully be able to be cleared up relatively easily. It probably does bother him to eat I would imagine.
It is frustrating waiting for results from the vets! Let us know what you are able to find out.
Did he have a good day today?

Tracie