Pogona with tongue problem

[Drache613]

Hello,

Let me review all of your thread & videos.
Agreed, based on the latest picture his lower jaw does not line up now. You were using the Reptiglo 10 bulb & not the Reptisun 10?
That particular bulb just does not have the correct wavelength frequency which is conducive to D3 synthesis. Over time, they are not able to properly absorb calcium. There have been many cases where the dragons have developed MBD under these lights.
Does the UVB go through screen or plastic & what is the distance?
He also could have other nutritional deficiencies such as thiamin too which mimics metabolic bone disease, but I would say the majority is going to be calcium related.
You are catching it early so hopefully it wont get worse but the underbite wont adjust & reverse though.
The missing of his prey is an early sign of neurological issues caused by low blood calcium.
I will review more to see if there is anything else going on. He probably has worms or parasites due to stress on his system, also.
The digestion issues are from stress as well with his system.

Are you taking him to the vet? He needs a calcium booster & hopefully they will give him liquid calcium, also. If you get a blood test done, I would like to see it also!

I will also PM you in the morning, too.

Tracie

 

[AHBD]

Hi Mike....I just wanted to mention that since this all started when you began feeding him large crickets, that is one of the clues as to what his problem is. Although he has a slight touch of MBD, I think a large cricket bit his tongue, something is irritating his tongue. In the video he didn't have trouble catching it, but he spit it out so he CAN catch them, just doesn't want to chew them. If you offer him a small cricket, will he eat it ? Also, he needs the good UVB bulb that was mentioned, and his heat to go up to about 105 in the basking area, and at least 75-80 on the cool side. Too low of a temp. can also contribute to MBD, so be sure that the temps. are good. Also,is he breathing alright, or does he keep his mouth open sometimes ? Too low of a temperature can also produce a respiratory infection once he becomes weak. Be sure that he's hydrated as well, and you asked what time of day is best to take him out , that would depend on the temperature, so whenever it's warm enough. If you have a plastic storage container and it's above 65 degrees and sunny, you can take him out. The storage container will keep the heat from the sun in, but you need to be sure it's not too cold or too hot. Hopefully he will start to improve with the right lights, some calcium and his tongue will get back to normal as it seems that it' been irritated.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Mike,

After watching the video, it is pretty evident he was bitten initially by that larger cricket. It happens quite often. What is his length? I would go to smaller crickets which are smaller between the space his eyes. Right now, I would use some softer bodied worms or even dubias, also.
Get some betadine, diluting it down to a slighly weaker solution & dip a swab into it & try to dab it onto the end of his tongue.

It is an honest mistake getting the incorrect UVB light. If Reptiglo/Exoterra would improve their lights we all wouldn't have to worry about these issues. When are you getting the Reptisun 10 now? You can mount it on the underneath side of his screen top correct? It will need to be mounted directly overhead alongside of your basking light. Instead of getting the Sun Glo, try getting a regular halogen spot or flood light or a regular household light bulb, if you can. The CRI is better & is not coated with neodymium which is easier on the eyes.
Make sure also that the tube bulb is in a fixture with a built in reflector to help direct the light downward, too. As suggested, make sure the basking temperatures are optimal for him, in a range of 95-110 with the cooler end being around 78-82 or so measured with a digital probe or temp gun.

If he is having a hard time eating or chewing, you can keep feeding the baby food right now so that he gets the nutrition he needs to be getting while he is still growing. The calcium will need to be given 5 times per week, with the D3 being thrown in there a few times a week, if you want to.

Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[hollowmike]

I got home a couple of hours ago, but i was busy to comment (mainly because i had to mount the dimmer and the new spot).

As soon as the vet opened i called them to ask for an apointment, and they told me to come by at 12 (1 and half hours later); first I went to a shop for the lights; they didn't had any Reptisun 10.0, only 5.0, but at least they had a ZooMed Basking Spot of 100W, which is neodymium free, so i bought only the spot. later, i went to the vet; he looked at my little Garrus and i told him everything; he weighted him, 80 grams, the he took a sample of saliva to watch it with the microscope, he said there wasn't anything weird in there; i showed him the videos I recorder the days before, and he said that the tongue is inflated, that it haves an abnormal size; i told him that it could be MDB, but he said that if it was the case, there should be clear signs in the legs, where appear the first signs, so probably it's something, maybe genetic, but whatever it is, it doesn't look like MDB; finally, he gave me a bottle of enrofloxacin, an antibiotic, which i should give him once a day, and some samples of a antiinflammatory, for the tongue, which i have to give him every 8 hours.

I have also made an appointment for Monday in the afternoon, when i will take him some poop samples.

Now that i have finally mounted the spot, he seems to like it, and the thermometer marks more than 37ºC (98ºF), at full power; i have bought a kind of foam a couple of days ago so i can insulate the enclosure next week; with the foam i'll also make like a second level so he can heat on top, or cool below it; this way, i can put the bulb on 70% and give him the same heat =D

 

[Melody12]

Is he doing much better?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is he doing today?
Did you get the Reptisun 5 or are you ordering the Reptisun 10 online? That is correct, that many times the leg muscles show first on the signs of metabolic bone disease. However, they can still have low blood calcium which has not affected bone mass yet. He will do much better getting a UVB light.
Great, I am glad you got a neodymium free basking light! It looks bright in the tank now.
Has he eaten for you?
His tongue is infected a little? The enroflaxin/baytil will be fine to help with the infection. How long is he supposed to stay on it?
What is the anti-inflammatory he was given, metacam or meloxicam?


Tracie

 

[hollowmike]

Well he kinda the same, i don't actually see any improvement; the food i give him still looks undigested, but the vet said it's normal, kinda strange; last night i ordered the ReptiSun 10.0, it should arrive in 2 days. and I have also bought beardies pellets.

He is supposed to take the anti-inflammatory for 5 days and the antibiotic for 7, tomorrow will be the last day for the anti-inflammatory and i'm not very sure if it has deflated; Saturday i have another appointment with the vet, he will tell how things have turned out.

About the anti-inflammatory, i hove no idea, i might ask him Saturday

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am glad you will be getting the new light soon! I hope he is doing better. It may take awhile for him to start improving.
Are his temperatures optimal for him to help with digestion?
The anti-inflammatory hopefully helped him out some. Keep us posted on him.

Tracie

 

[hollowmike]

=D the 10.0 ReptiSun has arrived; it's light is quite stronger and somehow more natural than the ReptiGlo. Now i'm looking to make a basking point of foam, and i'm not very sure what to use to glue the pieces together; any suggestions? i guess it haves to be some special glue so it wont be toxic, right?

 

[Amalthea]

Hey Mike, a hot-glue-gun should be safe and non toxic for your dragon. Just make sure there are no left over pieces he can eat by accident.

 

[hollowmike]

Ok, thanks, i'll see if i can get some.

I went to the vet, and although he is quite in the same state as a week before, he has gained 10g, he has 90g now, so this is a good sign; it might be because he is shedding these days, or because of the smashed vegetables; the vet told me to keep on with the medication 1 more week, with both the anti-inflammatory adn the antibiotic.

What concerns me a little bit is that since yesterday he has turned a little brighter, except for his top tail and beard, which are black (although the beard not always); i don't think he is in heat, he is only 7 months old, could it be because he stressed himself from the trip to the vet? or because he was cold?

 

[daner923]

It could be being cold or stressed, or it could be the meds. It's hard to tell sometimes. My dragon turns those two spots darker when he is just out exploring.

 

[Melody12]

How's he doing?

 

[hollowmike]

I'm so busy these days i forgot about the forum, sorry.

I toke him yesterday to the vet, and he is 95-100grams, a bit more than last time; he is shading and a little more active, as well. The vet told me to keep giving him the antibiotic and the anti-inflammatory until I run out of anti-inflammatory, i think in almost 2 weeks it should end; he said that i should also try to add some crickets or worms to his diet, from time to time, now that the tongue seems to have a better color and to be more "normal", it's a little less swollen.

Although Garrus didn't needed it, the vet made a radiography, he said it helped him see if he calculated the correct quantity of medicines; he also was very kind to give me the photo on a pendrive, here it is:

He said that it's clearly obvious now that there are no bone diseases =D

I'm giving my little Garrus right now turkey with smashed pumpkin, and he seems to like it. The vet also told me to feed him only once a day. Oh, and by the way, the other day he stuck that white thing outside, the vet simply pulled it out and said it's nothing worrying, and that now my little Garrus is oficially a boy, i'm kinda glad =D

He also changes his colour when i touch his "bum" ? not sure what word should i use; well not always, only sometimes, it's jsut that he is dirty of poop so i have to clean him somehow

I hope things come out well, he keeps getting better daily

 

[daner923]

I'm glad he's getting better. Just one thing - don't hold him upside down! They can't breathe like that.