DragonFire2000
Member
Please help! Hard black scales?
- Thread starter DragonFire2000
- Start date
- Status
DragonFire2000
Member
Hi guys! I have been trying to post pics for three days now but my phone and my laptop will not let me so I will have to keep trying. It got WAY better to where just the black spots were left. Then today when i got home from school I went to give her a bath and the scales aroud it are back red and almost look bloody. Is she maybe picking at it? The bandaid seemed to be fine and not touched. I made sure the honey wasn't pasturized before i got it so now I am lost. Any ideas?
DragonFire2000
Member
She still acts normal and eats and goes on daily but I am still worried.
Of all those vets near where I live only one is less than an hour away and that was the one that charged me over nothing. I do not want it to get worse but I do not want another $400 or so dollar bill for its just a cut or something like that. :/
Of all those vets near where I live only one is less than an hour away and that was the one that charged me over nothing. I do not want it to get worse but I do not want another $400 or so dollar bill for its just a cut or something like that. :/
I would keep treating with the honey and if the bandaid held then I'd keep using them to protect the area. It's encouraging that it looked like it started to heal up and may have just become irritated.
DragonFire2000
Member
Hey everyone Furi's infection is only getting worse and the vet said a visit shouldnt be but around 200 dollars but i still can bot pay that right now. I found Anti-ProtoZole that i can buy online. I have read up on dosage and have a scale to weigh her . Is this antibiotic ok to use on her?
Sorry to hear that Furi's worse. 
Have you used the betadine on it ? There must be an infection in her system, not just topically [ on her skin]. Do you have a link to the medicine you are talking about ? A protozoan is a type of medication that comes in many forms, it's used to kill parasites in the G.I. tract. So I don't think an anti protozoan would be used to treat a skin infection like that. Only a vet could really diagnose her + give a good treatment plan.
Have you used the betadine on it ? There must be an infection in her system, not just topically [ on her skin]. Do you have a link to the medicine you are talking about ? A protozoan is a type of medication that comes in many forms, it's used to kill parasites in the G.I. tract. So I don't think an anti protozoan would be used to treat a skin infection like that. Only a vet could really diagnose her + give a good treatment plan.DragonFire2000
Member
http://www.beardeddragon.co/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=332
Yes I have been doing betadine for a while now along with honey. It just does not help it go away and i do not want it any worse.I live in a very small town and i remember it was something like this the vet gave me for parasites.
Yes I have been doing betadine for a while now along with honey. It just does not help it go away and i do not want it any worse.I live in a very small town and i remember it was something like this the vet gave me for parasites.
Varalidaine
Juvie Member
This looks like classic Yellow Fungus to me. The skin will appear yellow and as the fungus creates a culture under the skin, lesions will develop, since the fungus is skin-eating. It essentially eats a hole in the dragons dermal layers, leaving just the top one to slough off and reveal lesions.
Yellow Fungus and Yellow Skin Disease are the same thing, some people will just call them different names. The fungus is a common fungus found in the soil and in places where things like leaves and grasses are decomposing. It's unknown why reptiles seem to have no natural immunity to it. It's thought that they can come into contact with the fungus, but it will only affect them if stressed, resulting in a suppressed immune system, or have some sort of open wound. The fungus' ideal temperature range is in the same range as the bearded dragon's so it's easy to see why the fungus loves them. It also produces dense colonies that can reach a diameter of 1.2 inches in only 14 days, which is why time is always of the essence in these cases. The fungus displays an optimum growth at 86 degrees F, so it will spread quickly once in the enclosure or present on the dragon.
Whatever it is, it could be a good idea to do a thorough cleaning of the tank so she doesn't re-infect herself while trying to heal. Bake any decor possible (i.e. don't bake silk plants, but things like wood, rocks, bowls, etc should be fine) at around 215 degrees for half an hour and throw out anything you can't thoroughly clean. Wash any fabrics in hot water, and if available, steam clean the empty tank. If you don't have a steamer, you can wash with a diluted bleach solution (I think 1 cup bleach to 1 gallon water), wash inside and out of the tank, let sit for 30 mins, then rinse rinse rinse. It would probably be good to let the tank air out for a day or two. Also, if you have a floor heater, furnace, or fireplace, you could set the tank infront of it, rotating it, so the glass gets hot enough to kill any left over fungus and also will help any bleach residue evaporate. His substrate (flooring) should be something easily cleanable, like paper towels, newspaper, or tile. I prefer tile because it acts as a complete barrier between the glass on the bottom and the poop and it's easy to steam clean/bake to properly disinfect.
If she does have YF, many times it is spread because the yeast and fungus pass through the system and they poop it out, then when the step on the poop, it spreads it around. This is why it usually appears around vents. So any poop should be moved immediately. This is also why topical treatments are essentially useless. Once the fungus is showing around the skin, especially the vent, it is a sign that the fungus in already in the internal organs and NEEDS to be treated internally.
Iodine or Betadine baths could be helpful. If your baby likes to drink her bath water, give her a fresh water bath first, let him drink, then drain and refill. Add enough of the Betadine or Iodine to the water to look like weak tea and let him soak for a bit. Usually 10-15 mins, but if she likes baths, you can do 30.
A probiotic would be great, as a week immune system only makes the fungus stronger, but nothing dairy as they can't digest it. I like Acidopholiz+ that I get from beautifuldragons.com because it's a liquid and is sweet so most dragons will take it easily.
The main point I want to stress is any little thing you can do at home will not be a cure. It could potentially help, and of course it's a good idea to try anything you can, but an oral anti fungal is needed to attempt to treat Yellow Fungus. Topical treatment will never cure it, if it is Yellow Fungus. And always make sure to keep a close eye. The fungus likes to play dormant and then spring up again, so even if it looks like it's going away, don't let it fool you.
As a sidenote, the disease is potentially zoonotic, so if you or anyone in the household is immunosuppressed, they should avoid interaction with the lizard. This includes people with HIV/AIDS, on steroids for organ transplant, some auto-immune diseases, etc.
As for medication, it's not like a cold where you just kinda take anything, like Tylenol, Advil, Acetminophen, NyQuil, etc. An anti-bacterial or dewormer will do nothing for a fungus infection, and will kill off any remaining good gut bacteria in your dragon. When dragons with YF are given an antibacterial, it makes the infection WORSE but the bacterial kills the immune system and good gut bacteria but doesn't nothing to the fungus, so the fungus grows like crazy. ONLY give her anti-fungals like Voriconozole.
Examples of Yellow Fungus lessions:
http://www.beardeddragonlady.com/uploads/1/3/5/3/13536865/2905464_orig.jpg
http://m.imgur.com/dKP3neE?r
https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/34576/full
I added these to show why I think it could be Yellow Fungus, especially considering the pattern of getting better and then drastically getting worse.
Yellow Fungus and Yellow Skin Disease are the same thing, some people will just call them different names. The fungus is a common fungus found in the soil and in places where things like leaves and grasses are decomposing. It's unknown why reptiles seem to have no natural immunity to it. It's thought that they can come into contact with the fungus, but it will only affect them if stressed, resulting in a suppressed immune system, or have some sort of open wound. The fungus' ideal temperature range is in the same range as the bearded dragon's so it's easy to see why the fungus loves them. It also produces dense colonies that can reach a diameter of 1.2 inches in only 14 days, which is why time is always of the essence in these cases. The fungus displays an optimum growth at 86 degrees F, so it will spread quickly once in the enclosure or present on the dragon.
Whatever it is, it could be a good idea to do a thorough cleaning of the tank so she doesn't re-infect herself while trying to heal. Bake any decor possible (i.e. don't bake silk plants, but things like wood, rocks, bowls, etc should be fine) at around 215 degrees for half an hour and throw out anything you can't thoroughly clean. Wash any fabrics in hot water, and if available, steam clean the empty tank. If you don't have a steamer, you can wash with a diluted bleach solution (I think 1 cup bleach to 1 gallon water), wash inside and out of the tank, let sit for 30 mins, then rinse rinse rinse. It would probably be good to let the tank air out for a day or two. Also, if you have a floor heater, furnace, or fireplace, you could set the tank infront of it, rotating it, so the glass gets hot enough to kill any left over fungus and also will help any bleach residue evaporate. His substrate (flooring) should be something easily cleanable, like paper towels, newspaper, or tile. I prefer tile because it acts as a complete barrier between the glass on the bottom and the poop and it's easy to steam clean/bake to properly disinfect.
If she does have YF, many times it is spread because the yeast and fungus pass through the system and they poop it out, then when the step on the poop, it spreads it around. This is why it usually appears around vents. So any poop should be moved immediately. This is also why topical treatments are essentially useless. Once the fungus is showing around the skin, especially the vent, it is a sign that the fungus in already in the internal organs and NEEDS to be treated internally.
Iodine or Betadine baths could be helpful. If your baby likes to drink her bath water, give her a fresh water bath first, let him drink, then drain and refill. Add enough of the Betadine or Iodine to the water to look like weak tea and let him soak for a bit. Usually 10-15 mins, but if she likes baths, you can do 30.
A probiotic would be great, as a week immune system only makes the fungus stronger, but nothing dairy as they can't digest it. I like Acidopholiz+ that I get from beautifuldragons.com because it's a liquid and is sweet so most dragons will take it easily.
The main point I want to stress is any little thing you can do at home will not be a cure. It could potentially help, and of course it's a good idea to try anything you can, but an oral anti fungal is needed to attempt to treat Yellow Fungus. Topical treatment will never cure it, if it is Yellow Fungus. And always make sure to keep a close eye. The fungus likes to play dormant and then spring up again, so even if it looks like it's going away, don't let it fool you.
As a sidenote, the disease is potentially zoonotic, so if you or anyone in the household is immunosuppressed, they should avoid interaction with the lizard. This includes people with HIV/AIDS, on steroids for organ transplant, some auto-immune diseases, etc.
As for medication, it's not like a cold where you just kinda take anything, like Tylenol, Advil, Acetminophen, NyQuil, etc. An anti-bacterial or dewormer will do nothing for a fungus infection, and will kill off any remaining good gut bacteria in your dragon. When dragons with YF are given an antibacterial, it makes the infection WORSE but the bacterial kills the immune system and good gut bacteria but doesn't nothing to the fungus, so the fungus grows like crazy. ONLY give her anti-fungals like Voriconozole.
Examples of Yellow Fungus lessions:
http://www.beardeddragonlady.com/uploads/1/3/5/3/13536865/2905464_orig.jpg
http://m.imgur.com/dKP3neE?r
https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/34576/full
I added these to show why I think it could be Yellow Fungus, especially considering the pattern of getting better and then drastically getting worse.
The active ingredient is metronidazole , used to kill parasites. I don't know that it would be useful for Furi's condition. Plus you would not really know the dose to give her for something other than parasites. I don't know what to tell you but if her wound turns to tail rot she can die. Tail rot usually requires amputation. Send a p.m. to Drache613 to see if she has any suggestions.... sorry I can't help much, I really wish you the best.
DragonFire2000
Member
I decided not to go out on my own which was good. I talked to my vet again and sent all the same pics and went for a visit. He thinks it is a bacterial infection caused by her getting into her own poop(which sucks because i pick the paper towels up as soon as i see the poop) but he said it may have been yellow fungus which went away with the betadine not for good but enough to work but the would has bacteria in it. He wants an appointment but still wants around 200 which I can not pay right now. I have read about yellow fugus a lot and thought that what was it was from the start but I have no idea. My vet is not the best as he said the yellow skin was fine last visit even when i asked about it exactly. :/ I have cleaned out the tank as said by steaming it out with hot water and bleach like you said. It is a 55 gallon tank so it is hard to clean it all. I ran all the items in the tank it very hot bleach water and another soak after exect for the leaves she never touches. I boight new carpet and put new paper towels over that. My vet is not the best so i will try Acidopholiz+. Thanks for all the imput and if there is anything else please let me know!
Varalidaine
Juvie Member
I am going to be very straightforward. There has yet to be a documented case of completely being cured of Yellow Fungus. The ONE I found was because the two animals only had it on it on their limbs, so the limbs were amputated and the dragons were saved. But when it is systemic and they are pooping it out (vent area is affected) it is typically too late. Treatment involves oral medication of Itraconazole or Voriconazole for 4-6 weeks. The fungus, if cured temporarily, often returns after a few months, which would require another round of treatments. You must also use anti-fungal topical treatments as well and keep the dragons enclosure meticulously clean with a veterinary grade disinfectant like F10SC as bleach DOES NOT kill the fungus. Prolonged use of the medication can have severe side effects on liver function. It is possible to keep infected animals alive for months or even a few more years, but eventually the medication or the fungus leads to euthanasia. It is also extremely costly, because you will have to be constantly buying more oral medication, disinfectant, and probiotcs, and very time consuming, with fully sanitizing everything in the tank every few days and syringe feeding various supplements daily.
You also have to think about her. Reptiles are typically harshly affected by medications due to their slow metabolism, so she would often be uncomfortable, and seeing as how Yellow Fungus is a skin eating fungus, she is already probably quite uncomfortable. Most people eventually just make their dragons as comfortable as they can and let them live until they give the sign that they are done.
I don't want to be discouraging, and please do treat her if that is what you want. I feel either way it is good to see the vet one more time, or call and ask if they can do a skin scraping to test for CANV/Yellow Fungus, that way you can know for sure and come up with a plan from there. But if you don't have the money for the vet or the skin sample, then there really is nothing you can do to cure her anyway. Yellow Fungus is typically fatal even with medication, and is 100% fatal without. There are no home remedies to cure it, only things to make her more comfortable.
You also have to think about her. Reptiles are typically harshly affected by medications due to their slow metabolism, so she would often be uncomfortable, and seeing as how Yellow Fungus is a skin eating fungus, she is already probably quite uncomfortable. Most people eventually just make their dragons as comfortable as they can and let them live until they give the sign that they are done.
I don't want to be discouraging, and please do treat her if that is what you want. I feel either way it is good to see the vet one more time, or call and ask if they can do a skin scraping to test for CANV/Yellow Fungus, that way you can know for sure and come up with a plan from there. But if you don't have the money for the vet or the skin sample, then there really is nothing you can do to cure her anyway. Yellow Fungus is typically fatal even with medication, and is 100% fatal without. There are no home remedies to cure it, only things to make her more comfortable.
DragonFire2000
Member
Thank you for being honest. I knew about that as soon as I heard yellow fungus. I still have some hope because the skin around her eyes has always been yellow and all the yellow in that first picture came off like shedded skin. It is gone for now just leaving the one wound and a few dark spots that arent yellow. So I can keep a little hope. So far she does not seem any different she runs around the tank and eats and stretches. She only acts tired after the betadine baths but that may be due to stress. I know I can not keep Furi if she does start suffering. I will end up taking her to the vet or something. But until then if it occurs I will keep her happy here trying to fix the wound. When i touch it she doesn't flinch or hiss or act like it bothers her. Even when i tapped on it to see if the black scales would just fall off. I have no idea what the future holds but if it is bacteria and her skin is just a bit yellow I do want to be sure. As soon as I get an okay for my new job I will oay for a vet visit and maybe a better camera for a video. I just hope she lasts until then:/. Its weird. I knew I would have issues with Furi the day I bought her from the fish store. I wantes to save all three from that place. They had one bulb on them not uvb going through the glass so they got no heat. A snake cage was on top of them and this was just a little carry on cage for like hermit crabs. The little tank was nasty and not cleaned and all three lizards fought and bit at each other. Furi was the only one who seemed female and was laying looking sad. I took her out of all of them and she did great for a while. Her finger was dark and bent in a weird way from what I assume was the others biting her. It fell off about a year ago.My idotic self put sand in the tank the day she hit a year old and she ate it. That was the first bill and issue with her. She had another spot that was red on the top of her tail a few months ago but it shortly went away. Furi is bad on false shed. She will scratch at a place until it nearly bleeds when the skin is not ready yet. I was told aloe would help. When I first saw the yellow everyone said it was just more bad shed. I got buzy with school and band and driving and so on that I did not get her out for a week. I got her out for a bath when I got back from everything on saturday and i saw the red and black and had a mini heart attack. I have been working since to try and fix her but to no avail. I have tried my hardest but bad things keep occuring so who knows. I do have one last question and that is that I have not replaced the uvb bulb in six months could that cause this? Do i need to replace it now not in a month? Thank you all for all the time and effort listening to me and helping me with my Furi!
Varalidaine
Juvie Member
It's always great to have hope! Animals will always uprise us and can live quite long lives even in not the best health. My dragon has ADV, so he has always been a poor doer and requires special care on a daily basis. He gets a strict supplement schedule and I test his decals every month to check for parasites. ADV can be a death sentence, so I know what it's like to try for your animals :love5:
Please do keep up hope for her! I would continue with the honey, or you can try getting your hands on some Silver Sulfadiazine Cream. It won't help fight a fungus, but if it's bacterial, it can be quite magical! If the honey has been failing you, I would try the cream. Or to try and treat the fungus topically, you should clean the wound with chlorhexidine (an anti-septic, follow the instructions on the package for dilution) and use miconazole or F10 ointment. The Miconazole is easily found in places like Target and Walmart, just look in the medication/anti-itch/fungal/vaginal itch section.
Whenever she poops, clean EVERYTHING in the tank. Her rocks, branches, bowls, etc and wipe down the walls. Even fecal particles can carry fungal spores, so the whole tank needs to be disinfected when she poops. When she does, just take her out and put her somewhere safe and comfy while you clean. Heat is the most effective disinfectant, so put everything that you can in the oven (resin bowls, rocks, caves, etc) and let it bake at low temp while you clean. You can leave the oven on for about 15-30 minutes and then turn it off, letting the items cool down in the oven. I have a spray bottle I use for cleaning the tank. Just mix up the solution of the cleaner (linked below) and spray in the empty tank, letting it air dry. Super easy!
I buy all of my medical stuff from here. It's great prices!
Topical Chlorhexidine for use on dragon, does not require dilution : http://www.beardeddragon.co/index.php?route=product/product&path=73&product_id=361
Concentrated Chlorhexidine for use in disinfecting tank, requires dilution: http://www.beardeddragon.co/index.php?route=product/product&path=73&product_id=189
And then just get the Miconazole from Walgreens or Target.
Routine I would start: Clean infected wound and surrounding yellow area daily with Chlorhexidine topical cleaner and apply Miconazole. You can use a bandaid to keep the ointment on. Whenever she poops, deep clean everything with heat treatment and Chlorhexidine solution. I would consider this the minimum treatment to try and improve that fungal spot. You can also alternate the topical Chlorhexidine with Providone Iodine if you already have some, so day one clean with Chlorhexidine, day 2 Iodine, Day 3 Chlorhexidine, etc. There are also PLENTY of supplements I would reccomend if you are interested that I use with my ADV dragon and meant for improving the immune system and decreasing pain, so that way you can fight the fungus from inside and out to prolong her life and make her comfy for as long as possible.
As for your UVB question, no, lack of UVB would not cause an infected wound. Depending on the brand, most need to be replaced about every 8 months, generally, so yours should still be fine.
Please do keep up hope for her! I would continue with the honey, or you can try getting your hands on some Silver Sulfadiazine Cream. It won't help fight a fungus, but if it's bacterial, it can be quite magical! If the honey has been failing you, I would try the cream. Or to try and treat the fungus topically, you should clean the wound with chlorhexidine (an anti-septic, follow the instructions on the package for dilution) and use miconazole or F10 ointment. The Miconazole is easily found in places like Target and Walmart, just look in the medication/anti-itch/fungal/vaginal itch section.
Whenever she poops, clean EVERYTHING in the tank. Her rocks, branches, bowls, etc and wipe down the walls. Even fecal particles can carry fungal spores, so the whole tank needs to be disinfected when she poops. When she does, just take her out and put her somewhere safe and comfy while you clean. Heat is the most effective disinfectant, so put everything that you can in the oven (resin bowls, rocks, caves, etc) and let it bake at low temp while you clean. You can leave the oven on for about 15-30 minutes and then turn it off, letting the items cool down in the oven. I have a spray bottle I use for cleaning the tank. Just mix up the solution of the cleaner (linked below) and spray in the empty tank, letting it air dry. Super easy!
I buy all of my medical stuff from here. It's great prices!
Topical Chlorhexidine for use on dragon, does not require dilution : http://www.beardeddragon.co/index.php?route=product/product&path=73&product_id=361
Concentrated Chlorhexidine for use in disinfecting tank, requires dilution: http://www.beardeddragon.co/index.php?route=product/product&path=73&product_id=189
And then just get the Miconazole from Walgreens or Target.
Routine I would start: Clean infected wound and surrounding yellow area daily with Chlorhexidine topical cleaner and apply Miconazole. You can use a bandaid to keep the ointment on. Whenever she poops, deep clean everything with heat treatment and Chlorhexidine solution. I would consider this the minimum treatment to try and improve that fungal spot. You can also alternate the topical Chlorhexidine with Providone Iodine if you already have some, so day one clean with Chlorhexidine, day 2 Iodine, Day 3 Chlorhexidine, etc. There are also PLENTY of supplements I would reccomend if you are interested that I use with my ADV dragon and meant for improving the immune system and decreasing pain, so that way you can fight the fungus from inside and out to prolong her life and make her comfy for as long as possible.
As for your UVB question, no, lack of UVB would not cause an infected wound. Depending on the brand, most need to be replaced about every 8 months, generally, so yours should still be fine.
DragonFire2000
Member
Ok thank you so much!
- Status
Latest resources
-
General Care Practical tips: A healthy brumating bearded dragonPractical tips to help keep your bearded dragon healthy during brumation
- Shinryu
- Updated:
-
-
Lighting Beginner Guide to Bearded Dragon LightingA basic lighting setup for any bearded dragon.
- Shinryu
- Updated:
-
Lighting Introduction to UV LightingMake a more educated purchase on your next UVB light.
- Shinryu
- Updated:
-
General Care Bearded Dragons - Care SheetAn all-in-one guide to caring for your bearded dragons.
- Shinryu
- Updated:
Latest profile posts
I just set Swordtail's timer for his bath and paused it so I could actually fill his soaking bowl up and he crawled over my phone and canceled the timer 
Mirage came out of brumation on April 26. He was doing great. On May 2 he started acting funny. We just redid his tank, and he keeps going into one of his hides. He just lays there. He shows no intrest in food. HELP!
