Please help. Dragon not eating..

[soupdragon]

Hello,
2 weeks ago I bought 2 bearded dragons, both 3 months old, both thought to be females, one called Echo and the other Lizzy, and its Lizzy that Im worried about..

they are in a large viv, about a metre and a half long, and 14 inches tall and wide.
10.0 reptisun UV light, at the top of the tank,
2 spot lights pointing on 2 different basking areas for them. Basking temps are 105, cool side of the tank is 87. General temp is around 95. Measured with stick on rainbow thermoms.

For the first week they were both fine, Lizzy eating all the crickets given to her, Echo not so much, but after a few days she settled down and started eating wonderfully.
I ran out of crickets on monday and bought some more, as well as a new wooden decoration, and then Lizzy stopped dead, didn't eat anything, shes only eaten one cricket since sunday night and now its thursday. Echo is getting much bigger, Lizzy looks like she is wasting away, shes very thin. Tried putting greens (danelion leaves, rocket, ect) near her, as well as the calcium dusted crickets, but she turns her nose up, doesnt touch them.
The crickets are considerably bigger than the last ones they were fed, but Echo eats them all with no trouble... Liz doesn't, just sits under the light. She walks around a lot and waves her arms but shows no interest in food of any kind, even the smallest crickets I have, and Im really worried,

ANY help or ideas would be GREATLY appreciated, thank you so much.

Ell

 

[Tatty]

Try separating them. I think one may be intimidating the other. I have seen this happen often. As a matter of fact, I gave a family two babies and one bit the tail off the other because they were together. See what happens and also offer smaller crickets to prevent impaction. :?

Tatty

 

[dreshany]

I agree with Tatty. The arm waving is a sign of submission, she is probably being dominated by the other. you could try dividing the cage in half with a piece of cardboard. Make sure the crickets are no bigger than the space between their eyes to prevent impaction. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[jacqui778]

I agree with the people above me and would like to offer a bit of advise--

Stick-ons are not good. They can be up to 20* off. Just so you know.... I'd recommend a digital thermom. with a wire

Good luck, and get them seperated.

-- Jacqui

 

[soupdragon]

Thank you, I will try that.
Ive tried removing Echo (the larger one) from the viv while I put the crix in, so that Liz can have a chance to see the food before Echo eats it all, but it doesnt work.
Ill get some smaller crickets tomorrow.

 

[Ethelia]

Hello there,
The members here arent suggesting just separating them for feeding, but for good.
By the sounds of it you have a lovely big viv which can be made into two separate vivs for your babies.

The reason we've suggested this is because the general belief on this matter is that beardies are solitary and territorial creatures and so should always be housed alone.
It drives us crazy that pet stores and local breeders often insist on it being fine.

Males + females especially shouldnt be housed together because they can overbreed.
Furthermore when beardies are housed together one usually becomes dominant causing the other beardie to not grow properly due to stress. This doesnt always show at first, but it sounds like this has already started with your two babies.

Another issue of housing two dragons together is violence.
Beardies can and do attack eachother. They can live in relative harmony and then one day snap. Unfortunatly dragons are not like dogs, who can be taught about naughty aggressive behaviour. Once it has happened once it will happen again and again.
Dragons will think nothing of nipping off a chunk or tail/toe in order to defend their basking spot.

There are rare cases where dragons show no signs of agression towards eachother, and there isnt too much bullying but it is a risk that is simply not worth taking

Its not your fault that you were misinformed, but I would suggest you separate your beardies with a cardboard screen for now until you can figure out a perminant solution. By the sounds of it your female is a bit shaken up and may need a nice hide where she can snuggle under to feel secure.
It may take Lizzy a few days to get used to living alone, but this is relocation stress not her missing her brother I assure you.
Your dragons will lead much happier healthier lives apart


Holly

 

[soupdragon]

I put in a carboard divider, it worked wonders straight away. Once Liz realized she was alone, she started eating after about 30 mins, had about 5 crickets which is the most shes had in 4 days. Phew. I noticed she had some nibbles on her back feet, with a few claws missing and toes slightly shorter ect, so Im really glad for the advice.
The only thing is that on the other side of the divider, Echo has no basking light. Tomorrow Im going to get some new deco for her side of the viv and drill a hole over that side for her light. As well as buy some new thermoms. But now they only have about a 2x2x2 foot box each.. how long can they stay like that for before I can buy new individual vivs? It will be about 150 quid for both and I cant just pop into the petshop and get them tomorrow! But will eventually of course. Or should I look into having the single viv extended, with a permanant divider? Ive heard of people doing both.
Thanks for all the help so far guys.

 

[K9KidsLove]

Hi...Congrats on your new family members.
Good that you have separated them. They are probably OK like that for about
6-8 weeks. As adults they need at least 4' x 18" x 18". Of course bigger is better.

When you get your thermometer, get a digital with a probe on the end of a wire. You will leave the probe on the basking spot 45 minutes to get a correct reading.

Also, you don't have to pay the high prices for specialty light bulbs...just use regular household bulbs. Place it right beside the UVB so they get benefit from both lights at the same time.

Is their UVB a compact, coil, long fluorescent tube? Can they get 6"-8" from it?

What substrate is on their floor? If it is anything loose, ie, sand, bark chips, walnut shells, etc., please remove it as it can cause impaction when they lick it, as babies do. It can also harbor bacteria & parasites, and crickets hide in it then will bite your baby after dark. You can use paper towels, or newspapers without colored ink, or textured ceramic or slate tiles. I changed my tanks to ceramic tiles & I love it. Much easier to clean & doesn't harbor bacteria, coccidia, or parasites. Don't glue it down, that way you can remove them for thorough cleaning.

Are you gutloading your crickets?

Are you soaking your babies every day or 2 for about 15-20 minutes?
Keep us informed
Good luck
Patsy

 

[soupdragon]

The ubv is a linear tube. Both beardies deffinately could before, it was on the roof and they had many plants and logs which they could sit on, and while basking, were within 8 inches of it. I'll need two ubv bulbs though,now that their tank is divided.
Substrate is a reptile carpet, which gets cleaned every morning. Tiles sound good but Im not going to go for them until their housing is permanently sorted out.
The crickets eat bug grub and are dusted with Nutroball calcium power.
I put the guys in their bath each day, ususally they dont like it and leave to go back to the basking spot, but I see them going in there on their own accord for about 10 minutes each. Again, I have to get another bath for the other side!
Yup today Im going to get the thermometers, any idea which shops I should try?
I use household lamps for their basking lamps. Moved one of them to the other side this morning so they now have two seperate basking areas
Its all very complicated haha
Well at least theyre both happy and thats what matters.
Does anyone know of any good places to get Vivs? Or should the one tank be extended to suit them both?

 

[Ethelia]

Congratulations and thank you for doing the right thing for your beardies.
Yup toes and tails are the classic spots where dragons get nipped, so it sounds like your little girl was being bullied.
Hopefully you will see more and more improvements in her activity and appetite.

Its not usually advised to have standing water in your viv. The water breeds bacteria very quickly and so unless your replacing it every morning and scrubbing it out its not the best idea. Its not dangerous persay but they would benefit alot more from having warm baths outside their viv 3 or more times a week than sitting in coldish standing water.

As far as extending your current viv over buying a new one Id say that is entirely up to you. Just make sure your dragons have enough room to grow and have the right lighting and they will be happy little monsters.

Holly