Planning to get a dragon, i have an unusual question

[CooperDragon]

The black soldier fly larvae are small and soft so even a young dragon should be OK with them. Order a lot at a time because they may eat a lot. Hornworms are quite large and probably not appropriate until they are closer to a year old and big enough to chew them up (they are soft though). Silk worms would be a good option when you can get them. Since your staple feeders are limited you might consider getting silkworm eggs and raising them yourself. Especially if you can get fresh mulberry leaves. Otherwise you can use chow mix for them.

 

[dragonroots]

So back to the lighting, i just got a temperature gun from canadian tire and used it to measure the temperature of what is the hottest point in the tank and it fluctuated between 97-102F. Is that warm enough for a baby beardie or do i need to go out and get a hotter bulb. Currently the bulb is a 100w zoomed reptibasking spot lamp.

Edit: So briefly i checked it another hour later (roughly same spot) and depending on the distance my gun was to the surface it at one point went to 115F (though that was putting the gun almost point blank) but it quickly dropped and went back to fluctuating between 97-105F

 

[kingofnobbys]

Those bearded dragon kits are almost entirely worthless, they come with bad lights, bad substrate, and depending on the tank size you'll have to upgrade it within a few months.

I suggest you get a timer, it may be expensive but worth it and move the beardie to a different part of the house that wont upset your sleep schedule. 12 hours of light does not work for a beardie unless in burmation, they need a 13-14 hour time period of light, preferable lights on at 6 or 7 am and lights off at 8 or 10 pm.
<<<< 14 hour minimum

Changing it to fit your schedule may cause problems to the beardie if you get a young one as they need to eat 3 times a day, 10-20 insects each feeding. I suggest going for a full grown adult (20+ months) as they eat once every other day for insects, the same amount but it would be easier for you as they arent as fragile as well.

Then again reptiles are not for everyone. You cant exactly get a reptile to fit your schedule entirely.
Make sure you know what your getting into before hand, i have 7 reptiles all together however only three actually eat insects 24/7. Which costs me about 47 or so dollars to feed every month, it used to cost me around 20 dollars every two weeks as 1,000 crickets was just not doing it for my juvenile beardie who eats up to 40 or more crickets a day, my adult female who eats 20 crickets every other day and my leopard gecko who eats at least 15 or so crickets each night. And thats just the crickets, you have to pay for uvb when you replace every 6 months, heating, the salad portion when they run out, you have to feed the crickets which 2,000 eats about one whole collard green in less than an hour.

 

[kingofnobbys]

So back to the lighting, i just got a temperature gun from canadian tire and used it to measure the temperature of what is the hottest point in the tank and it fluctuated between 97-102F. Is that warm enough for a baby beardie or do i need to go out and get a hotter bulb. Currently the bulb is a 100w zoomed reptibasking spot lamp.
>>>> on the low end for the basking spot , but it will fine , he'll spend more time basking.

Edit: So briefly i checked it another hour later (roughly same spot) and depending on the distance my gun was to the surface it at one point went to 115F (though that was putting the gun almost point blank) but it quickly dropped and went back to fluctuating between 97-105F

<<< the "closest" reading is going to be the correct one .... reading from further away will risk an erroneous reading because the "measurement spot" is likely quite large (ie 1:12 ==> 1 inch diameter spot at 12inches away) and you are reading both the basking spot's surface temp and the temperature of background surfaces behind it which happen to be in the "field of view" , result is an incorrect lower temperature reading..

A very common mistake.


btw 115F IS WAY TOO HOT for any beardie , NEVER hotter than 105F please . See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=233516

 

[kingofnobbys]

The uvb may be a big problem if your getting it from a knock off brand like all living things..

BRANDS TO AVOID
Not all UVB compacts, tubes and MVBs are created equal or as well.
Many Chain Petshops sell their own brand (
Nomoy Pet,
Zilla,
All Living Things,
Reptile-One,
URS,
MegaRay Brand,
CrawlMiracle,
Nat Geo ,
Sparkzoo reptispar,
Repti-Zoo ,
Natural Selections (in green boxes) ,
all of which are cheap Chinese clones made very cheaply using very poor quality quartz glass and cheap phosphors ==> very poor UV spectrum produced including UVC and bad parts of the UVB band.

Preferably unless you have a 200-300 dollar solarmeter to measure how much uvb it actually produces you want a arcaidia or reptisun t5 HO 10.0 tube light with a reflective fixture.

 

[KeyBlu422]

While unpopular due to bad performance in the past, the new Exo Terra compact uvb bulbs offer similar performance just in a less distributed area and slightly more intense as they've updated their tech. While the whole "eye issue thing" is still possible, it's extremely rare and can be detected pretty quick. Also, might as well go with a t10 over the t5.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Those bearded dragon kits are almost entirely worthless, they come with bad lights, bad substrate, and depending on the tank size you'll have to upgrade it within a few months.

I am aware that half the items given were useless, it was a 40 gallon zoomed tank and i am only using the basking light and food/water bowls that came with it. I have bought a hide, a branch, and a hammock for it to climb on and have also purchased a fluorescent uvb tube light. For substrate i am using paper towels at the moment with the intention to switch to a ceramic tile substrate as it got older. I am unable to put it in a different room as i have cats and my room is the only one that is completely secured from them in the house (most rooms dont have walls that reach the ceiling so they climb over them or have sliding doors that they sqeeze through). As for feeding my mother who works a regular day shift all year has agreed to feed it at least once while i am at work. The timer i was fully intent on getting this coming weekend.

RE CATS : THEY ARE A BIG DANGER .

Do not buy a viv with a mesh lid , no mesh is cat proof !!! , if you already have the viv and it has a mesh lid , remove the mesh lid , throw it away , install a solid timber lid , make sure it is impossible for a cat to lift it , lever it up, shift it to the side or force a claw under it .... a determined cat who wants to attack and torture your pet lizard WILL do this .



Edit: also the two months in question are July and August so assuming i get it as a baby of about a month old or so (which from what i read is about the typical age a baby beardie is purchased) by the time the schedule shift would occur it would likely be in it's sub adult stage in its growth at 6-7 months of age (again going by what i have read).

 

[kingofnobbys]

While unpopular due to bad performance in the past, the new Exo Terra compact uvb bulbs offer similar performance just in a less distributed area and slightly more intense as they've updated their tech. While the whole "eye issue thing" is still possible, it's extremely rare and can be detected pretty quick. Also, might as well go with a t10 over the t5.

I have been using 25W UVB150 (5%UVB) globes for my skinks and 25W UVB200 (10%UVB) globes for my dragons for over 10 yrs and have had excellent results and never had a lizard develop an eye issue attributable to these compacts.

These are very good sources of UVA & UVB and quite safe to use. I can't say the same about other brands of compact UV globes.

 

[dragonroots]

That was a huge infodump all at once but within it had many of the answers i needed. Now i also measured it when it was at its coolest and it was roughly 65F across the tank when the light was turned off and the cool end remained at that temp even when the light was on, is this too cold for a nighttime temp or should i also invest in an under tank heater to bring it up a little? Also i raised the basking lamp about an inch and the same spot reached about 105F at max when i scanned the spot from about a 1-2inch distance.

 

[EllenD]

Let's make this easy for you: As far as the UVb light goes, you absolutely must buy both a long (at least 18", 22" or 24" is better) UVB tube, preferably the much stronger T5 strength tube rather than the T8 tube that must be strapped to the underside of the mesh, within 6" of the basking spot, and replaced every 6 months, as opposed to the T5 UVB tube which only needs replaced once every 12 months, can sit on top of the mesh lid of the tank, and must be only within at least 11" of the Basking spot/platform. It must be at least a 10% UVB tube, or 10.0 (no lower, like a 5.0 or 2.0), and a matching length fluorescent tube fixture that is rated for a T5 UVB tube (rated for at least 24 watts). The 2 that are adequate for a Bearded Dragon are the 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVb tube, and the 24" Arcadia 12% T5 UVB tube, each of which can be ordered very cheaply on Amazon.com along with a matching T5-rated tube fixture as a "package deal"; The 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube costs about $24 on Amazon.com (a fraction of the price if you can find it in a pet shop), and Amazon.com also sells a 24" T5-rated tube fixture with a Metal Reflector included inside it (yes, the 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO tube fits into a 24" tube fixture) for about $28. So for around $50 shipped on Amazon.com you'll have one of the best UVB tubes and a fixture for it for a Beardie that will only need replaced once every 12 months, and will ENSURE that your dragon will not end up with the very common Calcium Deficiency and MBD due to inadequate UVB and UVA light. This is not optional, it's a requirement that you must have BEFORE you bring home a baby Beardie.

As far as the time period/lighting etc., you're over thinking it, which is good I suppose, as it shows you care and are taking it seriously. But please don't worry at all about the Diurnal period of 3-11, that's a non-issue. Here's the bottom-line:

#1) Both your dragon's T5 UVB tube and his bright-white colored basking bulb need to be on every single day for at least 13-14 hours. Again, not optional. So in the morning if you turn both his lights on a 6 a.m., then you need to leave both on until at least 7 p.m., etc. It doesn't make any difference at all what actual times of the day you do this, nor do you need to black out windows and such if your work schedule is what you say it is. Just turn his lights both on when you get up in the morning, and be sure that they are both on in the morning for at least an hour or 2 before you feed him his first live insect feeding session, so he'll be warmed up and ready to eat and properly digest. Then in the late afternoon or early evening you give him his last daily live insect feeding, but you must be sure to leave both of his lights on for at least an hour or two AFTER his last live insect feeding session of the day, again so he'll properly digest and absorb the nutrition.

#2) NO CATS IN THE ROOM THE DRAGON IS IN. EVER. MUST HAVE A DOOR THAT LATCHES AND IS ALWAYS LATCHED. PERIOD.

#3) A baby can get away with only 2 live insect feeding sessions a day, but 3 is better. Each should last between 10-15 minutes, and he needs to be allowed to eat as many live insects as he wants in that 10-15 minute period. If using crickets or roaches you have to feed 1-2 at a time, let him eat them, then put in another 1-2, etc. until he either stops eating or the 10-15 minutes is up. Never leave any live crickets (or roaches in my own opinion) inside his tank at any time. If you don't have time in the morning before work to allow both his lights to be on for an hour and then be able to feed him for 10-15 minutes, 1-2 crickets or roaches at a time, then you'll have to feed him either size Large BSFL (yes, a baby can eat large BSFL because they are soft bodied and it will keep him from eating as many) or Silkworms, if you can find them. You can also feed him the large BSFL in the morning in a bowl (dusted 5 times a week in calcium and 3 times a week in a multivitamin powder), and then feed him crickets or roaches during his late afternoon/early evening live insect feeding when you're home and able to feed him 1-2 at a time and remove any extras that are left inside his tank.

That's pretty much it. Again, don't worry about the Diurnal period, the 3-11, etc. First of all, the breeder/vendor/pet store where he is hatched/raised/sold has not worried about it, and by keeping them in captivity anyway you don't need to worry about it, Bearded Dragons are not nocturnal, and really that's the only issue that presents a problem as far as feeding and light periods for people. Beardies will be fine on YOUR SCHEDULE as long as both is T5 UVB tube and his bright-white colored Basking Bulb are both on for at least 14 hours (longer is okay), his tank is both Pitch-Black and considerably cooler at nighttime than in the daytime (around 65 degrees is great, so no nighttime heatsource is usually needed at all), and he gets at least 2 live insect feeding sessions per day, 3 if you can do it. If you're home by 3 p.m. then do one feeding session in the morning before you leave (use the BSFL in a large bowl if you have to), then do the second at 3 when you get home, then do the third around 7 p.m. and be sure to leave both his lights on until at least 8 p.m., or if you like nighttime quality time/snuggles, feed him his third feeding session at 7 p.m. and let him inside his tank under his lights until 8, then take him out at 8 p.m. for snuggles....You'll be fine as long as you get him a very strong, T5 strength UVb tube and feed him appropriate live feeder insects that are dusted in calcium 5 times a week and multivitamin 3 times a week. The UVB/UVA tube is very, very important...

 

[dragonroots]

Okay so if i order this https://www.amazon.ca/Zoo-Med-26053...r=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=t5+reptile+light+fixture and this https://www.amazon.ca/Zoo-Med-26061...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=G1JEZVR8CA45JNXVWTYV and put it on top of the mesh lid it will cause no problems and give the dragon sufficient uvb light with the bulb linked. Cause i do not want to waste money buying the wrong thing again (though i was able to return the old fixture).

 

[KeyBlu422]

Kingofnooby, I use a compact bulb too. Only after doing tons of research on the newer Exo Terra compacts though.

 

[EllenD]

Kingofnooby, I use a compact bulb too. Only after doing tons of research on the newer Exo Terra compacts though.

You can use one particular compact bulb, but only one, and that's where the danger lies in even mentioning it. The minute you say "The only compact UVB bulb that is adequate for a Bearded Dragon has to be a 26 watt Exo Terra 200, and it must be in a special Nano Hood and set up correctly", then everyone who reads it goes out and buys a cheap $10, 13 watt compact or worse yet a coil UVb bulb. That's why I don't even mention the words "26 watt compact UVB bulb", as I believe, to the best of my knowledge (please correct me if I'm wrong) that the Exo Terra 200 is the only compact UVB bulb that is 26 watts, or even over 20 watts, or maybe even over 15 watts. Most all of them are 13 watts...

 

[EllenD]

Okay so if i order this https://www.amazon.ca/Zoo-Med-26053...r=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=t5+reptile+light+fixture and this https://www.amazon.ca/Zoo-Med-26061...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=G1JEZVR8CA45JNXVWTYV and put it on top of the mesh lid it will cause no problems and give the dragon sufficient uvb light with the bulb linked. Cause i do not want to waste money buying the wrong thing again (though i was able to return the old fixture).

Dragonroots:

Both items you chose are perfect, the 22" Reptksun 10.0 T5HO UVb tube and then the separate 24" T5-rated hood, however I wouldn't ever pay $72 for that hood!!! That's absolutely ridiculous.

You do not have to buy a Reptisun brand hood, in fact there are 2 different 24" T5-rated fixtures that include a Metal Reflector available on Amazon.com, one is around $28 (The cheapest I've found that includes a reflector) and then the best one I've seen and have 2 of, the Sunblaster brand one that is around $45, and it actually has a built-in, fold-out reflector and also includes mounting hardware for both mounting it on a flat surface (if you ever upgrade to a large, wooden enclosure you can mount it on the ceiling) and then also for mounting it above from the ceiling or a shelving unit or rack. I love this one because of the fold-out, built-in reflector, it's meant for the expensive T5 plant tubes and it's very high-quality.

Besides, Reptisun sells that exact same 24" T5-rated hood along with an included T5HO UVB tube (UNFORTUNATELY THE UVB TUBE IT INCLUDES IS ONLY A 5.0, NOT A 10.0, SO DON'T BUY THIS PACKAGE DEAL IF YOU SEE IT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT ADEQUATE AT ALL FOR A BEARDED DRAGON) for only $59.99, so paying $72 for only the hood alone is a complete rip off. Also, that price on the 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube of $39.99 is very high too, I just ordered 2 of these same tubes on Amazon.com about a month and a half ago for $23 a piece...hang on and let me do a search for you and I'll post some links...

Where do you live? Are you in the US? It just occurred to me that you may be in the UK or Australia...

 

[EllenD]

Okay, so if you're in the US or Canada, and can order from the regular Amazon.com, here are some links:

#1.) The 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB Tube price page (includes all sellers of this on Amazon.com):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00AQU8HAO/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new

#2.) Here's the cheapest 24" T5-rated Tube Fixture that includes a Metal Reflector with it (2 of my personal friends who just upgraded to the Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB Tube bought this exact fixture about 2 months ago and have had no issues with it at all, they both have it sitting on top of the mesh lid of very large, glass Exo Terra tanks, and have their basking spots/platforms within about 9-10" of the T5HO UVB tube, and have no complaints at all):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00J3TR60Q/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new

#3.) Here's the more expensive (but way less expensive than what I paid, lol, I paid $48 a piece, now they are $37.99 with free shipping!!! That's a great deal, I think I'll order another one right now!) 24" Sunblaster T5-rated Tube Fixture that has the built-in, fold-out Reflector and also includes the mounting hardware for mounting it on the inside ceiling of a wooden enclosure or for hanging it from a ceiling, breeder's rack, or shelving unit along with it; This is the one I have 2 of and absolutely love, worth the extra money for sure if you can afford it):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00AKKUBDQ/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new