Pictures of my sweet, dying Pilot. Please help

[randisjoy]

I have always wanted a bearded dragon and I just had a couple fall into my lap that really need help, especially one. The second one seems to be undernourished but pretty good. She's alert and pretty active and ate very good yesterday. She (Blazer) seems to be slightly malnourished and dehydrated.

The VERY sick dragon (I named him Pilot) was COMPLETELY white yesterday. He was and still is not moving. He's just too weak. I visited a friends home and was so saddened by what a saw. This was several months ago and he was white but not all bones like he is now. The next time I went to visit the family I asked to see him & he was absolutely fine. They said they just fed him a few days in a row (aren't you supposed to feed them EVERYDAY?!! ) This past week I was there again and was so mad at myself for not asking if I could care for them sooner because what I saw was frightening. Seeing my concern, they asked if I wanted the two of them. I think they were happy to not have the responsibility. (they were their children's responsibility who did not do a good job at all. Shame on the parents for letting this happen!! ) My daughter & I went over there yesterday to bring them home. I need to be sure I have gotten good advice in the set up and that I am doing everything I can to save Pilot's fragile life. These other people had them for several years in a set up that didn't supply enough heat. The dragons only had a reptile heating pad (which doesn't seem to put out much heat at all!) and one long fluorescent tube stretched over them both. I've brought both bearded babies back to my home and bought a 40 gallon breeder critter keeper. I put them in together, which I wasn't to sure of. First, I was thinking it was very scary because if one is sick and the other isn't, I don't want to end up with two sick Dragons! Also, because the "healthy" (I say that loosely because she is very skinny but is alert and eating on her own) but she's is a little ball of fire compared to him & I didn't want her to hurt him! I was told they were separated a few yrs ago when they were babies because there was mysterious wound that showed up on the little one and they were worried the bigger one (now the sicker one) did it. All the pet stores I've spoken with encouraged me to put them together. The sicker ones symptoms seem to be from being very dehydrated and malnourished (besides the mysterious white color which NOBODY has a clue) so I'm really thinking/hoping there's nothing to catch. I'm also thinking his color has to do with not enough heat? In the car on the way to my home, my daughter kept him close to her on her arm to warm him up. By the time the 10 minute ride was over, he already had a little bit of his color back. I've invested quite a lot (for me at least!)in hopes of turning this little guy around. I don't think he's had sufficient heat (or food!)so I got a mercury vapor light. Even though it has both types of light, I'm still going to stick the long fluorescent on there during the day. Can't hurt, right? The mercury vapor light is 125 watts (exo terra solar glo). Also, for extra heat, I stuck the two little heating pads under the hot side. I hope that's OK? Last night was the first night they were here. I bought a 75 watt black bulb to keep them heated overnight. I read a good temp for the night can be as low as mid 60's but with them not being 100% and especially Pilot (whom I scared is very close to dying I wanted to take no chances. Do I have the right idea or even though he's so sick, would he fair better in the lower night temp? I also keep my home very airconditioned. The temp during the day has been 85-88 or so. Is that high enough? Last night it was about 70 with the 75 watt black bulb. I guess that will be OK for when they're healthy? I was uncomfortable with it because of their health though so today I went out and bought a 100 watt ceramic heat bulb for the night hours. (I guess from what I've read on here, the stick on therm that I'm using (one on each side stuck down 3/4 of the way closer to the bottom) is unreliable? What kind is it that I need and where should I look for it?

I put the new ceramic heat bulb on tonight. I had just fed Pilot the emergency Flucker's (which I really hope I am doing right!!? I described how I'm doing it a paragraph down. Sorry I'm all over the place here!) so, because I fed him right before turning out the lights, I put the black bulb on too (the box said it helps with digestion) Well, I just went over there and noticed Pilot managed to move away (a very little bit) from the black bulb (I had it right over him), so it must of been too much and I unplugged it. The temp read about 84 degrees so I'll see what it goes down to --{update-hours later it's barely 80 degrees}--All I know is this morning and through the night(I woke up several times in the night to check him. I really was so worried I couldn't sleep) he looked all white again and I was really scared I was going to wake up to find him gone. This whole thing is so stressfull. I want him to pull through!

I cant find his symptoms of the white on the internet at all. I'm not even sure if it's that important anymore and that maybe he just needs nourishment and heat?? He has gotten a lot of his gray/brown back except his head is still pretty white (I can give these updates because I've been at this forum for HOURS straight! . Does anybody have any ideas of what I can do to "bring this little guy back to health? I'm so scared for him.

Yesterday, when I got him home & saw he had NO strength to even try & eat, I went to the pet store and got Flucker's Repta Aid-an emergency aid to feed him with a syringe. Is anyone familiar with this? Directions say only feed them 50% of RDA for the 1st-4th days. I was told he is about 3 years old which makes him an adult? Directions said to give 6cc of warm water with 12 teaspoons of the Aid. So, for 1/2 amount I still gave him the full water but only 6tsps of the product. Even with just the 6 tsp instead of 12, it was SO SO thick that I ended up adding more water. He seemed to be a bit better but ONLY immediately (for a min or two)after feedings yesterday. Today, hmm, I guess. His color is much better today though. I did try to make it thicker and follow the directions to a 'T', but after I finished half the syringe tonight, my gut told me to go add a bit more warm water, so I did. Is it supposed to be so thick or am I reading the directions wrong?
He has opened his eyes today. A VERY little bit and it takes great effort. Yesterday he opened them for a split second right after I fed him and put him back in his home. He is really, really weak. It's hard to feed him while looking at his very sick face. His eyes almost look black and blue and they are "sunken in" too. He's just so sweet and fragile I hope I'm doing everything I can for this little guy!! Any suggestions would be SO appreciated.

Thanks SOO much,
Randi

 

[Jiffy]

Thank you for taking these two in.
My brain is not functioning enough at this time of morning to sort thru everything and come up with any type of answer that does not make me sound like I am out of my mind.
Figured I would at least bump this up in hopes someone can see it and help.

 

[randisjoy]

thank you very much. I can't sleep for the second night in a row. I am so worried sick.
Thank you very much, again. It was really nice getting a response, even if you are really sleepy

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

While waiting for some responses. Are you doing your research on BASIC care??? Are you prepareing to give propper homes? The rescue was great and hats off to you. Now comes the hard part. Not becomeing someone that needs thier dragons rescued. Look for the mods and PM them to ask for more direct help. In the meantime.

 

[Jiffy]

Probably be a best bet to get the beardie to the vet to find out what is causing the problem. Are you in the US?
if so, here is a list of reptile vets in the US
http://www.herpvetconnection.com/

Good luck with the beardies, I hope they do ok, and I hope that you can get them to the vet, or someone may have some ideas for you.

Jennifer

 

[randisjoy]

Thank you for the websites. I will check them out. I WISH I could take him to the vet but now I found out I got bad info from the pet stores and need to go buy a complete second set up I wasn't expecting this financially but it will be worth it (Oh boy do I pray!! :study: )

I am going to feed him again and get dressed (little behind today because I was up till 7am hoping the forum would come back on-line as it was down for a while) within the next couple hours I will be able to go get it.

Question though, I want to get a probe thermometer. I've been lead to beautifuldragons.com a few times through surfing on line. Thye suggest the temp gun. I think it's not a probe though? I'm hoping someone's farmiliar ith this type or can tell me where I can find one that they use that works good (namebrand and all please)

I am SO thankful I found this website!! Someone asked me to post pictures so I'm going to try and figure out how to do it later, after I get them "situated".

THANKS AGAIN!
~Randi

 

[Loganator]

Temp guns are nice because you can get temps immediately, they are more expensive though (obviously). The digital thermometer w/ probe work as well, you just have to wait approx 45 minutes after placing the probe somewhere to be sure the temp is accurate.

The digital w/probe (also measures humidity) can be found at Wal-Mart for $12. The brand is Accurite. At my store it was with all the thermometers in the housewares section. Not garden.

 

[randisjoy]

Thank you!!! I will go get that one. In the meantime, I will order the temp gun too!!!!!

 

[Loganator]

I have both also Randi. The digital one I leave in the tank (base at one end and probe placed at other end). The temp gun I use to get immediate "spot" temperatures at specific places in the tank, like the basking spot.

I too, have a 40 gallon breeder and an MVB bulb (T-Rex brand) postitioned over one end. I find that the MVB provides plenty of heat and I need no other heat source. In the winter, I use a ceramic heat emitter (heat, but no light) at night time. I do need a little more light on my cool side and was using an ordinary household 50 watt bulb, but found that it made my cool end too hot, so on the advice on someone here, I replaced it with a household coil lightbulb (light, but not much heat). Now all my temps are right on!

 

[randisjoy]

Hi Deb, and thanks again for your replies.

What is the wattage of your MVL? Mine is 100 watts and I'm thinking I need an additional heat source because it's showing only high 80's. Then again, I am going to leave here in a bit to start the second shopping frenzy (better thermometer included)

 

[Loganator]

Mine is the T-Rex Active UV MVB 100 watt flood. I have it hanging over my tank approx 18" measured from the floor of the tank. The closest my guy can get to it from his highest basking spot is 12 ". I also leave the lid/top/screen off my tank. I leave it open. It's just more convenient for us that way getting to him and he likes it more that way. (So far, knock on wood, we haven't had any escape attempts.) When we leave the house for any extended periods I do put the screen top on, in case he gets daring and decides to make a prison break! With the screen top on, the temps come down a few degrees. I have also read that the screen will filter some of the UV. so we just leave the top off when we're home.

 

[randisjoy]

In a nutshell (sorry about all the confusing posts I have written! I have been up for 3 days straight!!) I have to quick questions.

Flucker's First Aid with syringe:
Directions state to give 50% for the 1-4th day. This is day 3. I was , pretty much, giving him 50% of the supplement with the 100% amount of water because of the extreme thickness of the product(also, he's sooo undernourished and dehydrated that I think a little bit of extra water would be good).

OK, first question :arrow: I want to give him 100% today?? There seems to be a bit of improvement but I am afraid I am going to lose him!!!

It was suggested to give him warm baths. I have a vitamin/electrolyte spray for the reptiles food by Fluker's. The pet stores, who I am seeing gave me lots of bad advice. All 3 of them!! , told me I can spray the dragons with it as well.

OK, second question :arrow: Would it be of benefit to spray some of this into his bath water??

Thanks!! I hope to hear soon!!

~Randi

 

[fresnowitte]

Hi Randi! Actually it can hurt to use both the MVB and the tube UVB together...to much of a good thing is bad.

Also I to highly recommend the Infrared temp gun...however I found a small model at Habor Freight Tools for like $9.99 which is cheaper than a digital probe thermometer. Here's a link to see if they have a store near you that is if your in the US. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/retail_stores.taf

Could you possibly post a pic of the beardies...I'm thinking it might be helpful if we can see what this very sick beardie looks like.

 

[Pravius]

I do not think that dragons absorb anything through the skin so spraying it in the bath would be pointless unless he drinks the water. I am not at all familiar with the Flukers aid stuff so I have no idea what is in it... I would recommend going with whatever is on the bottle, if you overdose him even though you are doing what you think is best it may end up being the straw in the camels back. I think what he needs right now is just a nice relaxing warm place to be with occasional supplementation. Stress can play a huge factor in these animals over all health that if you do too much it may be hurting more than helping.

 

[dna14]

Hi Randi, I'm glad to hear you're separating them and want to say you're awesome for taking them in and doing your best to make them well!! That being said, I hope you post pics as Barbara requested... when you have time of course... let us know when you do have time and we'll tell ya how! Be watching for updates........ *fingers crossed*