Phoenix Worms vs Reptiworms

[Lpsouth1978]

Let me start off by saying that I have used both Phoenix and Reptiworms with success, however to varying degrees.

I started my dragons with Phoenix worms and they LOVED them. The problem was that they were hitting my wallet hard. After doing some research and price comparisons I decided to switch to Reptiworms. I was able to get a MUCH lower price because I was ordering in very large quantities (5-10k) at a time.

My dragons still eat them, but they don't seem to enjoy them as much. They were each eating 50-60 phoenix worms 2x a day. They are only eating 50-60 Reptiworms a WEEK now. They will usually eat just a couple and then walk away.

I also do not like the medium that the reptiworms are packed in as well. The worms are dirtier and just don't last as long as the phoenix worms.

The best price I can get for the phoenix worms is almost 3x the cost of the reptiworms I have considered starting a Dubia roach colony, but I am NOT keen on the roaches (they give me the willies)!!

Has anyone else found that the Phoenix worms were better for their dragons, or liked better? Is it really worth the cost to go back to Phoenix worms? I can only get 3.000 Phoenix worms for roughly the same cost as 10,000 Reptiworms.

Any comments or feedback is greatly appreciated!!

 

[melissapetrie]

My beardies have personally never had any preference. My oldest, that I've had going on 7 years now, has never really cared.

If your dragons are getting older now, they won't eat as much worms as they do veggies and such. Now their diet should be 80% greens, 20% live feeders.

Phoenix worms and reptiworms are the same worm - they were just raised on different food.

Also, to get the dirt off the worms you can just fill a small bowl with water and dump some in and grab them when they float back to the top.

 

[Lpsouth1978]

One of my dragons is almost a year old. The other is just 4.5 months. I currently sift as much of the dirt off of the worms as I can and then rinse them in a standard kitchen strainer using warm water.

I know the older dragon may just prefer his greens but my young dragon should still be devouring is worms so he grow BIG AND STRONG.

 

[bobbycarp]

One of my dragons is almost a year old. The other is just 4.5 months. I currently sift as much of the dirt off of the worms as I can and then rinse them in a standard kitchen strainer using warm water.

I know the older dragon may just prefer his greens but my young dragon should still be devouring is worms so he grow BIG AND STRONG.[

Why are you buying so many worms? What size? 500 large for the younger one should last about 10 - 15 days. For the older one if the 80/20 applies, then only 20% of 500.

For reptiworms, like said, a small bowl of water. Grab worm with tweezers, rinse in bowl, offer to dragon. The benefit of dunking the worm in water is hydration. 12,000 -15,000 large reptiworms a YEAR is plenty for your youngest. Offer the brown/black ones first! Peak calcium in the worm(maggot).

 

[Lpsouth1978]

I order them in 5000 quantities and keep them in a wine fridge. That way I get a much lower price and don't waste as much money on shipping every week or 2. I have gone through nearly 5000 in the last month. At first they ate them like they were going out of style. The first day I went through about 200 worms, but they quickly started turning their noses up to them. Over the last week or so I have only gone through about 200 worms.

When I had just 1 young dragon I was going through 500 Phoenix worms a week. That means that 5000 worms should last 2.5 months for 1 young dragon. I should still only have to order every 2 months or so at the moment. I can cut back more when both dragons are older. Though by then I will also have a chameleon to feed.

 

[bobbycarp]

I order them in 5000 quantities and keep them in a wine fridge. That way I get a much lower price and don't waste as much money on shipping every week or 2. I have gone through nearly 5000 in the last month. At first they ate them like they were going out of style. The first day I went through about 200 worms, but they quickly started turning their noses up to them. Over the last week or so I have only gone through about 200 worms.

When I had just 1 young dragon I was going through 500 Phoenix worms a week. That means that 5000 worms should last 2.5 months for 1 young dragon. I should still only have to order every 2 months or so at the moment. I can cut back more when both dragons are older. Though by then I will also have a chameleon to feed.

Are you buying the small worms? Expecting the worms to last months in a wine cooler doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Lpsouth1978]

Large now. I started with mediums.

 

[bobbycarp]

Over feeding maybe? Our dragon is about 13 inches and 30 large reptiworms a day is plenty(best guess 5 months old). Granted he gets 10 small-medium canned crickets a day so that pushes large reptiworms up 10 or so per day. At our feeding volume of worms over time it is clear that when fed heavily they will not eat until hungry and leave piles of poop that shouldn't make sense to anyone. I have huge issues with letting dragons feed heavily. It doesn't happen in the wild so mimic wild + a little extra care, not food, for being kept captive . Anthropomorphism is something we all fall trap to when having a pet and it's bad for our pets.

 

[Claudiusx]

Are you buying the small worms? Expecting the worms to last months in a wine cooler doesn't make sense to me.

Well it makes sense to others. Storing them in a wine fridge greatly increases the time you can keep them alive, allowing people to buy them in bulk quantities, which saves a ton of money.

It doesn't happen in the wild so mimic wild + a little extra care, not food, for being kept captive . Anthropomorphism is something we all fall trap to when having a pet and it's bad for our pets.

This is the lamest point I have ever heard. And unfortunately I see it a lot from newer people on this board.
So let me get this straight, you think that we should basically copy how a dragon would live in the wild?
Are you aware of the average life span of a dragon in the wild?
Now are you aware that in captivity, dragons can live up to and over 5 times longer than they do in the wild?

And trust me, this doesn't happen because we try to mimic the wild. It happens because we feed them good, care for them good, and over the years have found out what is the best for them.
The general recommendations of this forum in regards to feeding, are sound. Your philosophy is not.

-Brandon

 

[Lpsouth1978]

Are you buying the small worms? Expecting the worms to last months in a wine cooler doesn't make sense to me.

I buy the large worms, though I started out with the mediums.

I am not "expecting" the worms to last longer. They DO last A LOT longer. Without the wine fridge they will last 2 to 3 weeks. When kept at 50-60 degrees, they can last for 2+ months. Their metabolisms slow down so that they do not pupate as soon and therefore last much longer. a regular fridge is too cold and will kill them, whereas a wine fridge is programmable between 48 and 65 degrees, the perfect temps to keep phoenix worms at. This is a proven method for keeping Phoenix worms, not just some hair brained idea I came up with. I would rather but 5000 worms for $55 than 1000 for $39 ( the going rate for 1000 Phoenix worms). The math makes perfect sense to those who know what it takes to keep them alive long enough for them to be used up.

 

[bobbycarp]

Are you buying the small worms? Expecting the worms to last months in a wine cooler doesn't make sense to me.

Well it makes sense to others. Storing them in a wine fridge greatly increases the time you can keep them alive, allowing people to buy them in bulk quantities, which saves a ton of money.

It doesn't happen in the wild so mimic wild + a little extra care, not food, for being kept captive . Anthropomorphism is something we all fall trap to when having a pet and it's bad for our pets.

This is the lamest point I have ever heard. And unfortunately I see it a lot from newer people on this board.
So let me get this straight, you think that we should basically copy how a dragon would live in the wild?
Are you aware of the average life span of a dragon in the wild?
Now are you aware that in captivity, dragons can live up to and over 5 times longer than they do in the wild?

And trust me, this doesn't happen because we try to mimic the wild. It happens because we feed them good, care for them good, and over the years have found out what is the best for them.
The general recommendations of this forum in regards to feeding, are sound. Your philosophy is not.

-Brandon

So you're telling me captive bearded dragons live 15-25 years? Give me a friggin' break. Found out was is best for them? Really? Then why are forums so active and contradicting regarding care? Feed them good? When does nature pile all the food they can eat in 10-15 minutes right in front of them? Tell me why a bearded dragon needs a variety of food so they don't get bored. Experiment for you. Gorge yourself for 10-15 minutes 2-3 times a day like suggested for a young dragon and see how you feel. Bet you want to sit on your rock(couch) for hours on end, have much gut discomfort, and lay a huge pile in your toilet. OMG my dragon hasn't eaten in 3 days. Calm down, dragon will be fine, just like a human, dog, cat, bunny, bird, etc.. Don't get me wrong, bearded dragons are a very interesting pet and you all take the time to give what you think is best care. Why doesn't my veterinarian want to see my bearded dragon on a routine schedule like my other pets? The vet rarely sees a cat or dog at a healthy weight. I see lot's of pictures of flat out FAT bearded dragons. Bearded Dragons are predators? LOL! They are prey. No worry's I will leave you all alone to continue on with the regurgitated BS about feeding, enclosures, UVB bulbs, how to use an infrared temp gun, substrates. WTF, no non adhesive vinyl tiles but vinyl shelf liners are OK? Reptile carpet, um hello, petroleum product, same deal. Ever notice that caulk in your tanks? Porous tile? worse then sand. New owners challenging the status quo in forums is needed. Every answer to every question is just an old timer repeating something someone said is "the right way".

 

[Lpsouth1978]

Yet here you are contradicting yourself. You can have your own opinions and express them, but what gives you the right or "expertise" to say that because we don't care for our pets the way YOU think we should means we are doing wrong by our dragons.

I asked a simple question looking for other people's thoughts and experiences, not looking for you or anyone else inciting arguments over who is doing things right (apparently your way) and who is doing things wrong (by your standards any other way).

If you have anything else to say that is in line with the original topic then I would be happy to hear it. If you are simply looking to show how wrong I am In my husbandry then I respectfully ask that you take it elsewhere.

And to answer your question, yes it is very possible that a captive dragon can live up to 18, though 15 is much more common.

 

[Lpsouth1978]

Experiment for you. Gorge yourself for 10-15 minutes 2-3 times a day like suggested for a young dragon and see how you feel.

I do this on a daily basis, they are called meals, breakfast lunch and dinner to be exact. I don't know about you but I rarely have a meal that doesn't last at least 15 min.

The vet rarely sees a cat or dog at a healthy weight. I see lot's of pictures of flat out FAT bearded dragons.

This is a statement I can actually agree with. I am blown away by all of the people who think it is great that their dragon weighs 500 or 600 grams. Mine do not nor will they ever.

I will leave you all alone to continue on with the regurgitated BS about feeding, enclosures, UVB bulbs, how to use an infrared temp gun, substrates.

I just don't get where you were going with this. Dragons can be kept in a 10 gallon tank? They don't need UVB bulbs? Really I just don't get your point.

WTF, no non adhesive vinyl tiles but vinyl shelf liners are OK? Reptile carpet, um hello, petroleum product, same deal. Ever notice that caulk in your tanks? Porous tile? worse then sand.

The vinyl tiles are not the problem, the adhesive is. Reptile carpet can be removed and washed and there is no risk of impaction. Porous tile is as bad as sand IF you never remove it and scrub and wash it properly. Sand cannot be washed properly and there is a risk of impaction.

New owners challenging the status quo in forums is needed. Every answer to every question is just an old timer repeating something someone said is "the right way".

New comers questioning the way things are done is what this site is all about. That being said, the old timers are the ones with years of experience. If I am not willing to hear how they have been successful and impiment the things that will work for me and my dragons, then what is the point of coming here and asking. If I learn only 1 thing that helps prolong the life of my dragons or improves their quality of life then I want to learn it.

 

[unkempt1]

Ouch... please, everyone, take my advice and cool down a bit. Take a break. I'm not saying it to be "that guy," I'm saying it because you're now reading comments from someone that a while back received a warning because I got a little too passionate on a topic (a topic about worms, no less :lol.

Everyone relax, and if you want to contribute do it respectfully and preferably back it up with facts. :twisted: Arguing and name calling aren't worth it, especially if the consequence is no longer having the privilege of using this forum!

 

[Claudiusx]

Experiment for you. Gorge yourself for 10-15 minutes 2-3 times a day like suggested for a young dragon and see how you feel

Lol you have got to be kidding me.
Ok you do an experiment. Stay under a heat lamp set to 105 for hours a day and see how you feel.
Oh, you don't like that? Well your dragon must not like it either.

Your logic, is flawless.

-Brandon