Parasite treatment

[Drache613]

Hello,

I agree with the vet in the fact that too many medications cause negative effects.
For now, since you are beginning rehydration therapy, I would suggest taking her off of the medication (s) right now to give her system a break. Too long of medication cycles can cause renal & liver damage, too so I would be very hesitant to put her back on meds right away. She may have been too stressed from overmedication, which kept her coccidia levels from dropping like they should have.

Keep us posted on her.
Tracie

 

[discojan]

Me too!!! omigoodness, vash is SOOOOO cute

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Any updates for us? I hope your dragon is doing better. Let us know how things are going.

Tracie

 

[discojan]

Many thanks for checking back in on us! Sorry I didn't post sooner, my students are keeping me busy in these last weeks of classes. Thankfully, I finally spoke to the vet yesterday, who wanted us to finish the last doses of the SMZ. If that doesn't clear it, she wants us to put the little one on Albon. I am debating about giving those doses of SMZ--she was supposed to get the on Mon/Wed, but I wanted to give her little system a break. And things got a little nutty when the big one laid 26 eggs on the 15th (after candling I think they are infertile). Right now, Salsita hasn't had the meds for nearly a week. And her appetite is somewhat ok--nowhere near what it was b/f medication, and she only passed stool on her own when she was being syringe fed critical/carnivore care mix. We've been bathing everyday, but she last passed stool on Tues. She is feeling full, and has been eating a bit more. About 10-15 crix/dubias on Tues. and 3 live feeders yesterday. She isn't much interested in her greens. The vet can't seem to explain her constipation. She did say, however, that while she couldn't provide me with a specific count, when Salsa was last in to see her on Sat. 3 weeks ago, the counts of coccidia were 4+ on a scale of 1-5. So, I'm torn about giving her the two doses of SMZ. I want her to return to passing stool on her own and I'd like to see her appetite improve, and I also want to make sure we're doing all we can to get those parasites out of her systerm, though I know it can take awhile to fight coccidia. She is still curious, and we're trying to keep her on a heating pad at night to boost growth of good bacteria in the gut after acidopoliz. Unfortunately, it's nearing the end of the semester, and it's been a very busy week at work, so neither of us has been home much to observe her during the day. I'm hoping I can get her to pass stool on her own tomorrow so I can take it in for a float/check. I don't want to medicate unnecessarily.

To dose or not to dose? What do you think?

Best wishes,
Jan

 

[Drache613]

Hello Jan,

Ok, well I think another fecal float or smear should be done on Salsita before automatically medicating her. If the count was 4+ then that was definitely high enough for treatment. It was affecting her health so treatment was justified.
The constipation is normal a lot of times when they are put on sulfa based medications especially. The meds tend to dry them out which decrease the GI tract motility quite a bit.
So for now, continue using the acidophiliz & the belly heat at night, that is fine.
The SMZ or the Albon either one are fine for treatment of Coccidia. If it is a particularly stubborn case of coccidia, there is a drug called Ponazuril which is actually an anticoccidial agent. It is used commonly over in Europe & is very effective with just 1 or 2 doses, max. It is a bit expensive so most vets don't tend to keep it around much.
I would also keep her on the critical care as well, just to help her out right now & hopefully she will get her appetite back.

Keep me posted on her! I hope she is feeling better soon.

Tracie

 

[discojan]

Dear Tracie,

Thank you for your continued feedback. It's been a week since she had a dose of SMZ and she's still pretty constipated. She passed stool on Tues. on her own, but at that point she was only getting critical/carnivore care slurry. She has been eating some live feeders since then (about 20 or so crix/small dubias) in small increments, but she is not really interested in her greens and she hasn't passed stool since. I'm still giving her acidophiliz and baths, belly rubs, and she will eat a bit of the slurry as well. She feels full and looks well hydrated.

How long will it take for her to get her GI motility and energy back? Although active when hanging out with us out of her cage, she is still kind of mopy in her cage.I'm trying to get her to go so we can get the stool to the vet.

Best wishes,
Jan

 

[Drache613]

Hello Jan,

How are you doing?
Well, reptiles' digestive tracts are much slower than ours & mammals' so it does take a little bit of time. If she is still having a hard time passing things through her system, try giving her canned pumpkin or sugar free applesauce to help her out a little bit. The fiber is pretty effective for them, along with some extra oral fluids.
The protein is probably slowing things down a little & since she isn't eating her greens she doesn't get the fiber from them. I would continue with the critical care too since that does have some fiber in it. Hopefully the acidophiliz will boost her system as well.
You can also try getting some bee pollen, that increases energy levels & boosts the immune system as well.

Let me know how she is doing.

Tracie

 

[discojan]

Hi Tracie,

Thanks for checking in on us. Salsa is eating a bit of live feeders( some crickets and little dubias) and seems to be munching some greens, but not a lot. We're still bathing everyday, and trying to give her heating pad time in the day and at bedtime. Today if it hits 70 like it is supposed to, she'll get some leashed time in the natural sun. I've got sugar free canned pumpkin in the house for the holiday, and I'll try to get her to eat that from a spoon. She is getting fiestier and fiestier when it comes time to get any kind of feeding syringe. I can't blame her, this has been going on since Sept. which is now more than 2 months, but she still hasn't pooped since last Tues, poor thing. Since she isn't taking her acidophiliz very well, i bought some dairy free acidophilus pills that I can crush onto greens or live feeders. I tried to give her a lot of exercise yesterday--she had free reign of the house (supervised of course) in the hopes that that might help move things along. Today she'll get an olive oil rub on her cloaca. I don't want to have to give her another enema at the vet, but I'm worried about their availability this week b/c of the holiday and I don't want her to suffer or be uncomfortable. She must be getting some nutrients as her little arm seems like it is getting ready to shed. On which side of her is her belly located? I feel hardish (poop?) things on both sides and I"m not sure which to rub/massage more. I tried looking at some anatomy images on the web, but I'm still a bit unclear. Thanks again for checking in. She's now been off the meds for more than a week, so I'm hoping something will improve soon. We made up and sang a poopy song for her yesterday to no avail. Sigh. I never thought I"d be this obsessed with another creature's bowel movements.


Thanks again and I'll keep you posted!
Best wishes, Jan

 

[discojan]

Still no poop. In addition to the critical care/carnivore care slurry which I'm giving her, I made Salsa her very own apple sauce/juice. I just peeled and boiled an organic apple (I heard they have laxative effects in beardies, is this true?), and then blended. She took several syringe-fuls of the apple water, so at least she is getting hydrated, and a dropper full of acidophiliz as well. Yesterday she munched some skinned apple too. Her appetite is small, but she is active when taken out of the cage. I gave her two warm baths today and have been massaging her belly. I gave her an olive oil rub-down yesterday before her bath. She hates drinking olive oil, but I will try to sneak some into her apple water. It does seems like the hard things are moving, but I will feel a lot better when she poops. It has been a week now since she last pooped. If she does poop soon, should we not give her any live feeders for awhile? She is sleeping on the towel-covered heating pad; hopefully it is helping the acidophiliz make good bacteria in her belly. Good news is that the reptile vet is in on Fri. I'm hoping she will poop before then. Her mood seems good; her colors are good and she seems to enjoy this spoiling. I hope she is not just trying to milk us for all the lizard-spa treatment. At least now with the holiday approaching, we're both home to keep an eye on her.

 

[discojan]

Hooray--we finally had success today. I gave her 1 cc of olive oil and 3 cc of apple water, put her on the heating pad for an hour, and then put her in the tub and after 15 minutes or so we finally had success. The urates looked like a big solid mass, hard and brownish tinged, and the other part didn't hold together at all, so I"m worried she's still fighting the parasite, and we're taking the stool in for a float. Wish Salsita luck!

 

[discojan]

Well, our poor girl is still fighting that nasty coccidia. I took the fecal in for a float, and she still has coccidia 2 per field (I'm not sure what that means, but it was enough that vet wants to run another course of treatment) and some pinworms, though not enough pinworms to warrant treatment.

The plan is to wait another 2 weeks, so Salsa has a full month without sulfer medicine, and then begin a round of Albon. The doctor prescribed .25 ml 1x a day for three days, then once every other day for three weeks. That seems like a lot of medicine. Is this the normal dosage of Albon? We're just hoping our girl feels better soon.

 

[discojan]

Well, after nearly 6 straight weeks of treatment on and then nearly 4 weeks off, our poor girl is still not feeling well, and still fighting the nasty coccidia. We're about to start a second round of meds, this time Albon.

We've been very good about husbandry--she's only pooping once a week or so and then it's in a tub with water. Afterwards, we always clean it out with hot water/Dr. Bronners, and then boiliing water to kill anything else. We also bought a steam cleaner in the event that she does go in her cage. She's on paper towels instead of her usual tiles for easy clean-up.

Any other advice? Both she and I have the coccidia blues. She hangs out in the back of her cage most of the time and is very sleepy. She will sometimes eat a bit, but nothing like she was eating in Sept. She's still a young, teenage beardie (10 months), will all this trouble stunt her growth?

I'm a worried wart lizarda mama....but we're off to the vet tomorrow to get her weighed so she can be dosed properly. Other than SMZ and Albon, what other drugs are used to treat coccidia. Our vet is doing some research and Tracie mentioned ponazuril. Where can we get this and how easy/rough is it on their little systems? What is the dosage for it?


Any insight will be greatly appreciated.

 

[discojan]

Yay Ponazuril! After two weeks straight of taking it (and some calcionate syrup to help move the bowels more easily), our girl is finally coccidia free. It was the best Valentine's day present she could give her lizard momma.

The vet still wants us to keep her on the Ponazuril for another 2 weeks, but I'm hesitant. The vet is afraid that b/c of the coccidia lifecycle they might come back. I'm worried about keeping our girl on so much medicine--28 straight days of Ponazuril seems like a lot. It is what they do for horses, but she's a lizard not a horse! She is eating, but not as voraciously as she was a week ago. She is spoiled and loves her hornworms (especially the BIG ones), butter worms, silkworms, but she's turned her tail up at the usual crickets and dubia. She nibbles her greens but doesn't eat as fast and furiously as she once did. The vet wants us to have another 2 fecals before she declares her totally coccidia free.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I think that 28 days is too long. The effects of the medication will stay with reptiles for longer than it does for a horse because of the metabolic processes. Reptiles have a slower metabolic process and Mammals do.
The thing is, being totally coccidia free is not always "ideal" as some have naturally higher levels than others while still maintaining good health. Wiping all of the normal flora bacteria is not always a good idea because it can interrupt their digestive systems. They need some good bacteria, in low levels.

Those are just my opinions. I agree, another fecal would be fine, but the length of the Ponazuril has already gone way beyond what is normally used for reptiles of her size. You might start seeing a decrease in her activity, instead of an increase if it becomes too much for her.


Tracie

 

[discojan]

Hi Tracie,
Thanks for your response. I've already noticed her appetite went down a bit. I also did some research and it seems that some of the most recent lecture notes from vet school at Tufts and some other articles suggests a much shorter dosage period, so i'm going to stop it for now, and do another fecal in 2 weeks, when she would have finished the medicine. I hope that if we stop now and start up with acidophiliz, she'll get her appetite back again. Many, many thanks as always for your opinion. I hope all is well with you and your dragons (bearded and water!).
Warmly,
Jan