Hi all,
Following the kind help I received from AHBD today sexing my girl Eddie I wanted to write a post about how I have helped Eddie through a severe case of stunted growth.
Eddie was the runt of the litter born in March 2014. She was very small compared to the rest but we welcomed her into our home happily in May 2014.
Eddie May 2014
As it was my first (and only) bearded dragon I researched on the internet, thoroughly read this and other forums (this one being the most useful hence my deciding to join it!) and was fortunate to have a Herp Vet close by so I visited them to go through the ideal living space for Eddie.
The set up was a 4ft Glass fronted viv, with a spotlight 40w on the right hand side, a hand held temp gun to ensure a basking heat of approx 37 - 42 degrees. An electronic dimmer which ensured that the cool side remained around 20 - 25 degrees. A UVB t5 light bar across the entire length and several Arcadia bulbs 12% to make sure that they were changed every 5-6 months. The UVB fitment was for a single lightbar.
Feeding was a mixture of micro sized (to comfortably fit between her eyes) locusts, crickets and baby soft shelled dubia roaches. A small bowl of greens daily from the safe list found on this website. Calcium Powder and Multi Vitamin supplements. All insect food was gut loaded with fresh veg.
I had read many posts on this forum about feeding schedules and went to the help vet to confirm what I'd read to create the correct amount for Eddie to eat, and when to dust the various supplements. Without going into full detail now it followed around what 90% of the posts on this forum recommended and the vet gave it the thumbs up.
Despite my best efforts in following the feeding schedule and checking the Temps at least every day, (most of the time it was every few hours, in between spot cleaning and feeding etc) Eddie remained extremely small....
Eddie October 14 - 8 Months Old....
Eddie despite eating regularly, pooping regularly and being very energetic still only weighed around 65grams and looked like she was still only a couple of months old.
Throughout the previous 6 months Eddie visited the Herp monthly for Stool Tests and other examinations, all of which resulted in the herp confirming that Eddie was in good health with no signs of parasites or deformities.The herp visited my home to check out my viv with his own equipment to make sure my cleaning was thorough enough and that the temps were correct. Which they were.
SO around the time the above pictures were taken the vet agreed that some form of action needed to be taken and recommended introducing Wax Worms dipped into a Calcium Fluid on a daily basis for the first week and then continued the weeks after without the calcium fluid dipping, and also sticking with the normal diet and dusting pattern.
Eddie November 14 - 9 months old
After four weeks Eddie still only weighed 75 grams. Stools were regular and tested regularly revealing no parasites etc. Meals were eaten in plentiful amounts but no real weight gains were made. Eddie was still playful and inquisitive so despite being concerned for her health I was still happy that no apparent pain or discomfort was being felt.
Eddie End of December 14 / January 15 - 11 Months old
Eddie ended 2014 still only weighing around 90 grams. Again regular stools with no parasites. Whole tubs of food consumed on a daily basis. Temperatures checked and correct. UVB bulb changed. Supplement schedule adhered to. But no significant weight gain.
JANUARY 2015 - NEW PLAN
At the beginning of 2015, after the herp had done considered research on the topic themselves (probably under pressure from my repeated questions!) a new strategy was agreed. To feed Eddie food larger than what should be appropriate for her size.... At first the logic bewildered me as I immediately thought that it would cause impaction, or that 50 'bugs' weighing an amount of grams would be the same amount of food matter as 8 larger 'bugs' weighing the same total amount. Despite my hesitations though - my concerns that Eddies organs were not going to be growing properly inside of her meant that some action needed to be taken. So boxes of 'Large & Xtra Large' Locusts and Crickets and Dubia Roaches were now added onto the shopping list. Wax Worms were removed.
The herp recommended a daily short warm bath at the beginning of each day (around 1 - 2 hours after heat lamp on) to aid in passing stool as the size of the food would be slightly harder to pass also to benefit what he felt would be a time of continual shedding. But to continue with my normal bathing schedule and daily misting (or should I say drip tipping into her mouth!) on top of this.
The plan begins.... and weight starts to gain...!
Eddie February 2015 - Almost 12 months old.
Eddie started to gain around 2-4 grams every few days, even though the actual amount she was eating was the same... just a smaller amount of larger food?! Each morning she would be popped into the small tub of warm water and pass her previous days eating within about 1-2 mins. It was quite an experience watching her eat now as the food was clearly as large as her head so she would have to chew the food really well before swallowing, instead of her hoover style action she had become used to!
Eddie March 2015 - 13 months old.
Eddie was now putting on more weight every few days but her activity levels were the same as the past year - hyper active and alert. The shedding was consisted throughout the each week. Always something growing.
Eddie End of April 15 / Beginning of May 15 - 15 months old.
Eddie now weighed around 300 grams and has very much set into her routine of eating throughout each day at set time, daily baths (or should I say toilet stops) and is very happy and active.
Eddie today 1st July 15 - Just 17 months old.
Eddie (as usual) is sporting her constant shedding look. She measures ntt 19 inches. She weighs a respectable 370grams. And importantly is still showing signs of constant growth. Her diet over the past few months still involves eating food on the larger size of things but the vegy diet has taken over. The herp has agreed that because of her bad start with growth we will continue a 40 / 60 split of insects and veggies for another 2.5 months before calling back the proteins and upping the greens. This time could be reduced if Eddie keeps growing the way that she is.
APOLOGIES for such a long post. I just wanted to write down my experience as when I searched on a weekly basis to see if anyone was going through something similar to me I found it almost impossible to find anything as most posts seemed to relate to an underlying heath issue that was resolved with changing the husbandry by means of temp control or supplement control.
An obvious point to make is that when feeding my Eddie larger foods it was under the watchful eye of the Herp Vet and everything I have read contravenes the advice I was given so please don't try anything similar unless you yourself are guided like I was.
If anyone else has a runt that refuses to grow - there is hope!
FINALLY, I might of realised today what caused the problem.... for the first 17months of Eddies life.... Ive been calling/referring to her as a boy!! No wonder she developed a problem!
Following the kind help I received from AHBD today sexing my girl Eddie I wanted to write a post about how I have helped Eddie through a severe case of stunted growth.
Eddie was the runt of the litter born in March 2014. She was very small compared to the rest but we welcomed her into our home happily in May 2014.
Eddie May 2014
As it was my first (and only) bearded dragon I researched on the internet, thoroughly read this and other forums (this one being the most useful hence my deciding to join it!) and was fortunate to have a Herp Vet close by so I visited them to go through the ideal living space for Eddie.
The set up was a 4ft Glass fronted viv, with a spotlight 40w on the right hand side, a hand held temp gun to ensure a basking heat of approx 37 - 42 degrees. An electronic dimmer which ensured that the cool side remained around 20 - 25 degrees. A UVB t5 light bar across the entire length and several Arcadia bulbs 12% to make sure that they were changed every 5-6 months. The UVB fitment was for a single lightbar.
Feeding was a mixture of micro sized (to comfortably fit between her eyes) locusts, crickets and baby soft shelled dubia roaches. A small bowl of greens daily from the safe list found on this website. Calcium Powder and Multi Vitamin supplements. All insect food was gut loaded with fresh veg.
I had read many posts on this forum about feeding schedules and went to the help vet to confirm what I'd read to create the correct amount for Eddie to eat, and when to dust the various supplements. Without going into full detail now it followed around what 90% of the posts on this forum recommended and the vet gave it the thumbs up.
Despite my best efforts in following the feeding schedule and checking the Temps at least every day, (most of the time it was every few hours, in between spot cleaning and feeding etc) Eddie remained extremely small....
Eddie October 14 - 8 Months Old....
Eddie despite eating regularly, pooping regularly and being very energetic still only weighed around 65grams and looked like she was still only a couple of months old.
Throughout the previous 6 months Eddie visited the Herp monthly for Stool Tests and other examinations, all of which resulted in the herp confirming that Eddie was in good health with no signs of parasites or deformities.The herp visited my home to check out my viv with his own equipment to make sure my cleaning was thorough enough and that the temps were correct. Which they were.
SO around the time the above pictures were taken the vet agreed that some form of action needed to be taken and recommended introducing Wax Worms dipped into a Calcium Fluid on a daily basis for the first week and then continued the weeks after without the calcium fluid dipping, and also sticking with the normal diet and dusting pattern.
Eddie November 14 - 9 months old
After four weeks Eddie still only weighed 75 grams. Stools were regular and tested regularly revealing no parasites etc. Meals were eaten in plentiful amounts but no real weight gains were made. Eddie was still playful and inquisitive so despite being concerned for her health I was still happy that no apparent pain or discomfort was being felt.
Eddie End of December 14 / January 15 - 11 Months old
Eddie ended 2014 still only weighing around 90 grams. Again regular stools with no parasites. Whole tubs of food consumed on a daily basis. Temperatures checked and correct. UVB bulb changed. Supplement schedule adhered to. But no significant weight gain.
JANUARY 2015 - NEW PLAN
At the beginning of 2015, after the herp had done considered research on the topic themselves (probably under pressure from my repeated questions!) a new strategy was agreed. To feed Eddie food larger than what should be appropriate for her size.... At first the logic bewildered me as I immediately thought that it would cause impaction, or that 50 'bugs' weighing an amount of grams would be the same amount of food matter as 8 larger 'bugs' weighing the same total amount. Despite my hesitations though - my concerns that Eddies organs were not going to be growing properly inside of her meant that some action needed to be taken. So boxes of 'Large & Xtra Large' Locusts and Crickets and Dubia Roaches were now added onto the shopping list. Wax Worms were removed.
The herp recommended a daily short warm bath at the beginning of each day (around 1 - 2 hours after heat lamp on) to aid in passing stool as the size of the food would be slightly harder to pass also to benefit what he felt would be a time of continual shedding. But to continue with my normal bathing schedule and daily misting (or should I say drip tipping into her mouth!) on top of this.
The plan begins.... and weight starts to gain...!
Eddie February 2015 - Almost 12 months old.
Eddie started to gain around 2-4 grams every few days, even though the actual amount she was eating was the same... just a smaller amount of larger food?! Each morning she would be popped into the small tub of warm water and pass her previous days eating within about 1-2 mins. It was quite an experience watching her eat now as the food was clearly as large as her head so she would have to chew the food really well before swallowing, instead of her hoover style action she had become used to!
Eddie March 2015 - 13 months old.
Eddie was now putting on more weight every few days but her activity levels were the same as the past year - hyper active and alert. The shedding was consisted throughout the each week. Always something growing.
Eddie End of April 15 / Beginning of May 15 - 15 months old.
Eddie now weighed around 300 grams and has very much set into her routine of eating throughout each day at set time, daily baths (or should I say toilet stops) and is very happy and active.
Eddie today 1st July 15 - Just 17 months old.
Eddie (as usual) is sporting her constant shedding look. She measures ntt 19 inches. She weighs a respectable 370grams. And importantly is still showing signs of constant growth. Her diet over the past few months still involves eating food on the larger size of things but the vegy diet has taken over. The herp has agreed that because of her bad start with growth we will continue a 40 / 60 split of insects and veggies for another 2.5 months before calling back the proteins and upping the greens. This time could be reduced if Eddie keeps growing the way that she is.
APOLOGIES for such a long post. I just wanted to write down my experience as when I searched on a weekly basis to see if anyone was going through something similar to me I found it almost impossible to find anything as most posts seemed to relate to an underlying heath issue that was resolved with changing the husbandry by means of temp control or supplement control.
An obvious point to make is that when feeding my Eddie larger foods it was under the watchful eye of the Herp Vet and everything I have read contravenes the advice I was given so please don't try anything similar unless you yourself are guided like I was.
If anyone else has a runt that refuses to grow - there is hope!
FINALLY, I might of realised today what caused the problem.... for the first 17months of Eddies life.... Ive been calling/referring to her as a boy!! No wonder she developed a problem!
SInce then, I have gotten her on the correct diet with live insects, and fresh leafy greens. I just feel really bad for feeding her that, and wish I could go back in time and change it. WIth your post, I now have new hope. All her temps have been correct, and no sand substrate. I hope by the end of this year she will reach her full length. I know yours wasn't anything you did, but it still gives me hope. I am happy for Eddie and you.
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