Out of enclosure lights

[Booey123]

Hi all, and happy bank holiday to the Brits on here.
My boy loves being outside his enclosure. When he’s out I’ve set a ramp do he can go in and out as he pleases but it’s early days with the ramp and he’s just getting the hang of it . What I wanted to know is Iv set a couple of heat lamps up so he can wonder around and get some heat if he needs it, but he loves being in the garden window. I know the uv doesn’t penetrate the glass so I’ve got a double fixture with a halogen light on one side and a coil uvb on the other. I know coil uvbs are a no no for enclosures but if it’s just this spot will he be getting enough rays? I’ve attached a picture of the what it looks like but it can always change.
Thanks, and any advice on outside enclosure time also welcome as he just loves roaming around but it’s just not possible when I’m at work.
Thanks again

 

[ChileanTaco]

I've read here that coils are not only inappropriate in a way of them being too weak or not delivering all the UVB, but that they are bad and should not even be used for a short time - so no UVB for a short time is better than using them. (I had first (also) thought they are just too weak and wouldn't deliver all the UVB but could be used "better than nothing" in a situation like you describe it.)
So from that information, I would just use the halogen, and not the coil.

How long is he outside of his enclosure per day, approximately? If he's a significant time in the enclosure, the UVB he gets there is enough. If it's long time, I would really use a UVB tube. It's often done that way for larger reptiles like iguanas which are out of their enclosure for a long time or basically roam free in the house similar to a cat.
Other option: Does the enclosure open from the front? Then when he's out, you could try a ramp so he can go back in on his own when he likes to bask.

 

[Booey123]

Thanks for your help. In the week he’s probably out about 2/3hrs at a time, generally when I get home from work. I mentioned that he has out of enclosure basking options and a ramp so he can go in and out as he pleases during this time too. Noted on the coil, I’ll just turn it off. He has time in his enclosure with his uvb strip for most of the day so as you suggest he’s probably getting what he needs in this time. As the weathers getting better I also take him outside for some natural sunshine which he seems to enjoy.
Thanks again for help

 

[ChileanTaco]

I have seen that you mentioned out of enclosure basking options, but these were the halogen and the coil. For that was my suggestion: Remove the coil, and optional add a tube if it's for a really long time. 2 - 3 hours should be fine and I would not use anything else than a halogen then.
I saw you mentioning the ramp, but hadn't understand exactly what you mean by

it’s early days with the ramp

(I'm not a native speaker, so I wasn't sure what you mean with "early days" regarding a ramp, is it something in the morning, have you just bought it?), so thanks for clarifying that!

In summary: I would remove the coil and keep everything else as it is.

As the weathers getting better I also take him outside for some natural sunshine which he seems to enjoy.

Yes, that's a good idea

 

[xp29]

The uvb helps him produce his own vitamin d3 so his body can process calcium. If he's been in his habitat all day he has accomplished that. A coulpe hours or so in the evening without uvb isn't going to hurt him. The heat lights are a good idea though, if he gets to cool he'll slow down and want to sleep, if he's hidden it could be hard to find him.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

What type of UVB light setup do you have for the
inside of the tank?
It's ok to let him run around outside of his tank, so
you can use a basic basking bulb for him when he
is running around outside of his tank.

Tracie

 

[Chris.]

If you want to provide him with heat and uvb, you should look into getting a mercury vapor bulb. They are fairly cheap and my boy loves to lay under it in the window.

 

[ChileanTaco]

@Chris.

As I might buy one once I'm in Germany end of the year (no mercury vapor bulbs are available here in Chile):
Which one are you using, and how long do they last? So I have an idea what I might buy.
Asking you as most recommendations are for the US but 110V vs. 220 V.

 

[Chris.]

@Chris.

As I might buy one once I'm in Germany end of the year (no mercury vapor bulbs are available here in Chile):
Which one are you using, and how long do they last? So I have an idea what I might buy.
Asking you as most recommendations are for the US but 110V vs. 220 V.

The ones I use are the ReptiZoo D3 super sun. The light they emitt has a green tint to it but I bought them a year ago and still haven't had one failing yet. They emitt a lot of uvb though so you want to check that the dragon doesn't get too close for too long (perfect for outside the tank).

For inside the enclosure a metal halide bulb would make the nicer light and have less energy consumption. I use the XReptile uv-mh bulbs and 100W is more than enough for a 210 GAL tank (I would even consider the 70W bulb for an adult)

 

[ChileanTaco]

Thanks!
I will just buy it as an addition for outside of the enclosure to be used during evenings. As otherwise I'm totally fine with the setup inside the enclosure* and will just buy a bunch more of these Zoomed basking spot ones when I'm in Germany (so often not available here, e.g. none available for two month in all Chile!).

* That is:
Zoomed basking spot 100 W (hard to get here, I always keep some on stock as far as possible and will bring a lot of them from Germany), halogen lamp 100 W (is sometimes off on very hot, bright days during the summer as then there is a lot of light and heat from 2 windows directly behind and next to the enclosure; seem to be not longer available but I bought approx. 25 of them as they have been easily available), and a Zoomed Tubo T5 Reptisun Uvb 10.0 Desertica 24w 55cm (rather easily available here). Temperatures with those are good and dragon behaves normally and is healthy.

 

[CooperDragon]

You've gotten good advice so far, but I figured I would chime in to share my experience with this. My dragon has never really been able to tolerate being in an enclosure, so I've evolved a pretty effective setup completely outside the enclosure (keep in mind I have no other pets and the house has been pretty well protected against him getting into anything he shouldn't). This has worked well for going on 9 years now. I've found that they can do pretty well at regular room temps for a while and be content. They especially love looking out the window. It sounds like this is close to your case, so you probably don't need to get too elaborate with the lighting. Just put him back in his enclosure when he gets cold or if he moves to a corner and curls up for a nap. You'll want to be sure there is proper heat gradient and UVB exposure in the enclosure for him to enjoy.

I found that you can extend the time they are out by adding some heat. A plain halogen/incandescent basking bulb in a dome fixture on an adjustable stand or clamped to something works really well. Just tune it to provide surface temps around 38-42c under the bulb and he will move to it when he wants to warm back up. Outside the enclosure you have more space so the gradient is easier to achieve so focus on the temps right under the bulb. You can add more of these warming stations around the house if you want to expand his range. He will quickly learn where they are and move to them to warm up. If you want to extend the time out of the enclosure, you can add some MVB spots for him. It helps to have a solarmeter to check the UVB output of these regularly. I've found that the output varies wildly between brands and sometimes between bulbs of the same brand. The longevity of the bulbs also varies so either checking them regularly or replacing them every 6-12 months is important.

I think in your case, some time looking out a window should provide a lot of enrichment without needing much infrastructure. The setup you have in your photo should work just fine. A simple basking bulb should be enough, but I don't think a modern compact UVB will be harmful. They aren't very powerful so the benefit probably isn't worthwhile, but you can probably keep it in place and just focus on the surface temps if you want to. If he doesn't like it, he will just move away from it. The extra space available allows you more room to experiment with temps and configurations to find what he prefers since he can just move toward one or away from the other as he desires.

 

[ChileanTaco]

My dragon has never really been able to tolerate being in an enclosure,

Shows again how different their personalities are

They especially love looking out the window.

Can agree on that so much. Mine loves it very much!

Just put him back in his enclosure when he gets cold or if he moves to a corner and curls up for a nap.

Mine, when he wants to go back into his enclosure, runs there and waits that I open it.

A simple basking bulb should be enough, but I don't think a modern compact UVB will be harmful.

I don't know their specifics. I had asked here in the forum whether somebody knows why exactly it's said there are harmful (and not just insufficient), but nobody seems to know and I also had not found any spectra to compare.
I would be very interested in the details, not as - some might suspect - I want to downgrade my dragon's lamps to compact UVBs, but just as I'm a physicist and engineer by training and technical specifications and spectra are just "my thing"