Osteomyelitis

[emma1992]

Hi all,

I have just returned from the vet with Stanley, my bearded dragon, where the vet has just told me that he has osteomyelitis in both his front legs and one back leg. The vet was extremely negative, saying that antibiotics rarely work in this case, and told me that it would be best to put him to sleep. However, since the diagnosis was such a shock, I decided I wasn't ready to make the decision to end Stan's life, so I brought him home.

He is still eating, but only morio worms, and I bathe him 2-3 times a week to help him to go to the loo. I have read other posts, where treatment used for Stan's infection was Baytril. I'm definitely willing to try this, along with any other suggestions that other readers may have? Or if there are any other users in the UK who can recommend a good vet? The one I used was in Chipping Norton in Oxfordshire, one of the nearest ones to me.

I just can't give up on the little guy; he was a rescue from six months ago, where he was in extremely unsuitable conditions, and I absolutely adore him.

Thank you in advance,

Emma

 

[AHBD]

Hi Emma....I'm sorry that your poor little guy has this problem, and I commend you for being so dedicated to trying to help him. As long as he's not in severe distress + pain I think it's reasonable to see if anything can be done. There are some on the forum here who are from the U.K......if you can find a poster called " dragonkeepers " [ I think they have a post in the memorial section after losing a beardie ] and they may know about vets in the U.K. You can also p.m. Dache613 [ you'll see her posting on alot of the E.R. threads ] for advice, as she's pretty keen with latest meds. + treatments on various conditions. I truly hope for a good outcome !

 

[Drache613]

Hello Emma,

Oh no, I am sorry to hear about that. Poor Stan, I wonder what could have caused the condition, as it is normally a bacterial or fungal infection. Since he was in poor conditions prior to you getting him then it could be from anything.
Did the vet do a blood test on him & do you have the test results of it I could see? Or did they do x-rays or a culture of the area that is swollen to see if the fluid could be analyzed?
Does he have swelling of the legs?
This type of infection can definitely be aggressive. There have been several people on the forum with this condition. There was also a person whose female developed a fungal infection & ended up losing part of her arm. Though, they did finally get it cleared up.
The vet switched to Azithromycin for treatment. It really seemed to target that type of infection very well, better than the other meds.
Maybe you could consider that one, to see if it is effective.
How is he doing otherwise, does he bask normally?
At least he is still eating some, does he also eat greens, too?

I don't blame you for not wanting to just give up that easily, either.

 

[emma1992]

Hi Emma....I'm sorry that your poor little guy has this problem, and I commend you for being so dedicated to trying to help him. As long as he's not in severe distress + pain I think it's reasonable to see if anything can be done. There are some on the forum here who are from the U.K......if you can find a poster called " dragonkeepers " [ I think they have a post in the memorial section after losing a beardie ] and they may know about vets in the U.K. You can also p.m. Dache613 [ you'll see her posting on alot of the E.R. threads ] for advice, as she's pretty keen with latest meds. + treatments on various conditions. I truly hope for a good outcome !

Hi,
Thanks very much for the advice, I'll try to find these posters for additional advice

Emma

 

[emma1992]

Hello Emma,

Oh no, I am sorry to hear about that. Poor Stan, I wonder what could have caused the condition, as it is normally a bacterial or fungal infection. Since he was in poor conditions prior to you getting him then it could be from anything.
Did the vet do a blood test on him & do you have the test results of it I could see? Or did they do x-rays or a culture of the area that is swollen to see if the fluid could be analyzed?
Does he have swelling of the legs?
This type of infection can definitely be aggressive. There have been several people on the forum with this condition. There was also a person whose female developed a fungal infection & ended up losing part of her arm. Though, they did finally get it cleared up.
The vet switched to Azithromycin for treatment. It really seemed to target that type of infection very well, better than the other meds.
Maybe you could consider that one, to see if it is effective.
How is he doing otherwise, does he bask normally?
At least he is still eating some, does he also eat greens, too?

I don't blame you for not wanting to just give up that easily, either.

Hi,

Thank you very much for replying. The vet was unhelpful with this, too. He said they don't know how beardies contract these bacterial infections, so I can't even change anything that may have caused it. I have thoroughly cleaned out his viv with reptile disinfectant and soaked all of his branches etc.

The vet only x-rayed him, is there any way I can display his x ray on here? He pretty much said that he could do blood tests etc but it would be expensive and he'd probably die anyway, in so many words.

He used to eat greens; when I rescued him he would only eat morios, and he went on to eat crickets, locusts, kale, carrot, red peppers, which he was a particular fan of, but now he has reverted back to just worms. Another person recommended baby food to give him, too, which I actually have in the fridge, so I can try that.

Thanks again,
Emma

 

[emma1992]

https://imageshack.com/i/exxURenWj

I hope this shows up; it's the x-ray of Stan.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Emma,

Terrific, thanks for posting the picture of the x-ray! How is Stan today?
Baby food would be helpful for getting more nutrition into him. You could even make him a greens slurry also for extra fluids, daily.
Cleaning out his tank is helpful. It is hard to know how he contracted it. How long do you think he has been having trouble with this?
The blood tests are somewhat high, yes. I think I can see some swelling in the front of the arms, is that right? What did the vet say about any swelling?
Personally, I think he needs to change out the antibiotic to the azithromycin to see if that helps. Did he not even suggest aspirating any fluid to culture it to try & identify any bacteria at all?

Those are where I would start so you know what you are dealing with. If you catch it early & can pinpoint it then the bacteria should be able to be treated & stopped. It needs to be soon though before it spreads.
Can you get colloidal silvers over there in the UK?

Tracie

 

[emma1992]

Hello Emma,

Terrific, thanks for posting the picture of the x-ray! How is Stan today?
Baby food would be helpful for getting more nutrition into him. You could even make him a greens slurry also for extra fluids, daily.
Cleaning out his tank is helpful. It is hard to know how he contracted it. How long do you think he has been having trouble with this?
The blood tests are somewhat high, yes. I think I can see some swelling in the front of the arms, is that right? What did the vet say about any swelling?
Personally, I think he needs to change out the antibiotic to the azithromycin to see if that helps. Did he not even suggest aspirating any fluid to culture it to try & identify any bacteria at all?

Those are where I would start so you know what you are dealing with. If you catch it early & can pinpoint it then the bacteria should be able to be treated & stopped. It needs to be soon though before it spreads.
Can you get colloidal silvers over there in the UK?

Tracie

Stan is alert, he ate a worm last night for me, but I am going to try baby food this morning. He still moves around, but he can't use his left leg very well, and just kind of drags it. Yes, the vet said he has swelling in both front legs and one back leg. He said it could be in more places but he couldn't tell from the x-ray.

I am hoping to see another vet today if I can get an appointment. The last vet said he could run more tests, but again seemed reluctant to try. I think we can get colloidal silvers here.

Emma

 

[Drache613]

Hello Emma,

Great, the next step is to try & aspirate some fluids so they can culture it to determine what type of bacteria. Once they have that information they should be able to get him on the proper meds.
Personally, I think the Azithromycin would probably be a good start. It seems to hit a large range of bacteria.
Try to get some colloidal silvers, that is a natural antibiotic/antimicrobial agent. Do you have any probiotics?
That is what I could see on the x-ray some swelling. I am glad to hear that Stan had a good day today!
Keep us posted on him.

Tracie

 

[emma1992]

Hi,

I spoke with an Australian vet whose beardie had osteomyelitis in its front leg, and she was prescribed injectable baytril for one month every 48 hours and fortum every 72 hours for three months.

Since I have been working almost every day, I took an hour out of work and made an appointment with my local vet, who has some exotic experience, and she was happy to prescribe Stan with the aforementioned meds. I know it might not be ideal but for the next few days until I can get him to another specialist which is another 40 mins from me, it's at least something that might have a chance at targeting the infection.

In terms of probiotics, is there a special reptile one that I need to get hold of, or can I use ones for humans? Yesterday, I bought him a liquid supplement with calcium and magnesium to try and help with his bones. He did actually drink some of this mixed with his drinking water when I dripped it on his mouth. I will see if I can get some colloidal silver ordered.

I also spoke with another vet in Australia, who sais that from the X-ray, he could see swelling but no bone involvement, so again that's something new, and all the more reason that I need a second specialist.

Thank you for you advice again,
Emma

 

[emma1992]

Another update:

I found a product called Reptoboost, which apparently works as a probiotic, as well as other things. It is designed to act as a pick-me-up for reptiles. I gave Stan a little drink containing this earlier; he drank a little but he can be stubborn when I try to drip it on his snout. Should I be directly putting fluids into his mouth if he stops drinking?

With regards to the colloidal silver, I can get it here, but when I looked it up, it comes in different strengths e.g. 25ppm, 30ppm, 50ppm. Which would be the best one to use? I found this one online http://www.discount-supplements.co.uk/rivers-of-health-high-stability-colloidal-silver-50ml-bott?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=googlebase&utm_term=high%20stability%20colloidal%20silver%2050ml%20bottle&gclid=CMD_4qvP3MECFUTHtAodVB0ARw#product_details which I have ordered anyway because it is cheap. It doesn't actually state how many ppm it contains. I have also read that you can't really overdose on colloidal silver. Any advice here would be good

Thanks,

Emma

 

[Drache613]

Hello Emma,

That will be fine, the colloidal silver looks good. Usually the mid range of ppm is good. It is somewhat hard to overdose on it, but I would keep in the moderate range & cycle it.
The Reptoboost is great, you can use that to help with appetite & in place of a probiotic, that should work.
I am glad to hear he drank some fluids then, hopefully he liked it. If he doesn't take enough fluids in then you can try using a swab to get his mouth open a little & gently squirt more food or fluids into him.
So the other vet prescribed some meds for him for now until you can get him in to see them?
That is great news he didn't think it had spread to his bones. If you can get it treated as soon as possible he stands a great chance at full recovery. I am happy to hear you have found another vet willing to listen & to try & help out Stan. I am one who doesn't like to give up, either.
If you want to get a specific probiotic, you can use a non dairy soy yogurt or a non dairy acidophiliz.
Keep us posted on him!

Tracie

 

[emma1992]

Hi,

Great, I've paid to have the colloidal silver delivered within 1-2 days so it should be here by tomorrow at the latest. Would you recommend about .5ml like the other beardie website I looked at?

He can be hit and miss taking fluids, so if he becomes more stubborn I'll use a swab, I didn't think of that.

Yes, the vet I use for my other animeals prescribed the same meds that were recommended by a vet in Australia that I spoke with, so until I can get him in at the other specialist, I'm trying those.

The second Australian vet said this of stan's x-Ray:

That front leg is quite swollen but, on my computer, I cannot see any bone involvement

I'm not 100% sure what he means by "bone involvement" but the vet who x-rayed Stan (the first vet I ever saw) said you could see where the bacteria has been eating away at his bones. I'm definitely going to get a second opinion.

Thank you again for the advice, I'm blown away by everyone's helpfulness.

Emma

 

[JeffFisher]

Wait, you just posted as I was typing a response.
No bone involvent means no osteomyletis. Osteomyletis IS a bone infection...get a second opinion.
This may be something totally different.

 

[JeffFisher]

Is your UVB bulb a good quality bulb? How old is it?
What brand of cacium are you using?

It did seem odd that your dragon would have osteomyletis in several bones. That doesnt sound right at all. This sounds like MBD or a tissue infection. Do everything your vet has told you and get a second opinion. Be carful with oral colloidal silver it is possible to overdose on it. It usually isnt fatal, it just causes skin to turn blue and it is permanent. There is one person I have seen that is a "smurf" because of overdose. I am not kidding, it sounds crazy but google it.