OMG She laid eggs!

[NegativeCreep]

Ok, my new rescues Lo and Lette are still being housed together. I know, I know. I'm getting another tank Sunday.
I went in the room just now where they are being housed and she has laid eggs. I was afraid that she was gravid, and now I know. She had laid 5 eggs, as of now. She is very, very skinny, even more than before. Now I am worried about her. I know she has MBD, so I have been giving as much calcium as their food will contain. I put them on a MVB yesterday.

What else can I do for her now? I don't know if she will continue to lay. She's very skinny, but she only weighed 275 grams before these 5 eggs. I hope she doesn't have any more. I have been trying to get her to eat butter worms. She was taking them, now she won't. I will keep trying. She is enjoying the super worms, but I won't give them very many at a time since I don't think they have ever been fed them before. They both seem to be pooping regularly, sometimes even in the bath.

Right now, the lights are off, but she is still awake. She's covered in stress marks, which she has not had once since I have gotten her. She black bearded me once, but only when I was feeling on her belly to see if she may be impacted. I have a 20l tank, and a few spare clamp lamps. I hate to remove Lo from the only good UVB that I think he has had in his life.

OMG, now I am panicking. Help!

 

[UTreptiles]

I would not worry unless she does not start to bounce back in weight. 275g is on the low end but is not terribly bad in terms of weight for egg laying. I knew of a beardie laying eggs at less than 200g. Very small girl, but she made a great recovery and went on to live a normal life. Warm baths can help. It can sometimes take hours, or even days to expell all the eggs, especially if they are new to egg laying. Do you have a lay box for her to dig in?

Hope she pulls through this ok. Egg laying is hard work for them.

 

[NegativeCreep]

I imagine it is hard. I know its hard on their calcium, and with her MBD, it's got to be hard.
Should I remove the eggs? I wouldn't dream of incubating them, given that they are likely unhealthy and I don't need a bunch of babies, anyways. I have read that I should put them in the freezer to be sure they are not fertile. But, mostly, I am concerned about her attachment to them. Do you think this sort of thing affects them emotionally, too?

 

[NegativeCreep]

They are actually on the sand. I was going to remove it, but I noticed how much she was digging and thought it might freak her out worse to remove it right now. I didn't make a lay box yet, since I didn't really expect her to lay so quickly. We've not had her very long, and she had a fresh wound from, apparently, breeding.

 

[UTreptiles]

No, I have never seen any type of emotional attachment or even guarding of the eggs. All my females bury thier eggs and walk away. I can go in there and scoop them out with no troubles at all. Beardies are actually terrible caretakers, natural instinct is to bury and run. I think they actually would prefer someone else to take good care of them.

Yes, the proper way to dispose of unwanted eggs is to freeze them overnight then throw them away. Do not feel bad at all for doing this. Better to freeze them before they start to develope then to have a ton of babies you may not be able to care for or find homes for. You would be doing the right thing.

 

[UTreptiles]

Feel free to take the eggs out as you see them laying there. No problems with that. When they are in lay mode other outside disturbances go virtually unnoticed. You can take the eggs and she won't care at all. Just try not to pick her up as this may slow down the laying contractions.

 

[NegativeCreep]

I just snuck her a few butter worms, since she is still awake. She ate them readily. I will leave the eggs as of now, I will wait til tomorrow and see if she has anymore. If by tomorrow afternoon, she doesn't have anymore, you think it would be ok to give her a bath, then?

 

[UTreptiles]

Yeah you can leave the eggs in there. I had one female that laid eggs randomly all over the cage over the course of about 3 days. Then a month later she had a huge clutch of 16 eggs at once. All the random eggs she laid were slugs (bad). Feel free to give baths whenever she is not activly digging. This can help with passing the eggs. Sometimes they will release an egg or two in the bath tub as well.

 

[NegativeCreep]

I just couldn't fathom that she had 5 in her tiny little body, as it is. She would be negative weight if she had 16! They are quite large, larger than I would have guess. I figured she was gravid when she black bearded me that one time, though. I just wasn't ready for her! I hope she is done, or at least nearly done. She's so frail looking.
Thanks so much for your advice. I've not seen you around here before, but your advice seems solid. I appreciate it.
I suppose I will be ready when/if Blaze ever lays! She's so fat already, she could hide 30 eggs in her belly!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I think it would be a good idea to start her on liquid calcium right now because she could lay others. Since she has metabolic bone disease, this is going to really drain her calcium reserves badly.
I hope you are able to separate them soon.
Very true, they have no maternal instincts at all with their eggs.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

 

[Ethelia]

Oh goodness I cant believe that skinny little girl was gravid!
I agree with all of the above. Feel free to remove the eggs, there will be no attachment.
The only thing I can suggest is not to disturb her whilst she is digging. I would leave them there until she is at the other end of tank then whip them out.
I would also really really suggest getting the male out of there whilst she is laying. Room mates really can stress them out during this time.
I understand you know the issues of housing them together and right now they are together because they absolutely HAVE to be. I would however suggest seperating them during laying some how. Even for a few hours to try to keep her carm. It might really help.
Perhaps a cardboard divider or setting him up in a rubbermaid tub with a desk lamp keeping him warm for a few hours to give her some privacy.
Some people even block off the tank with cloth so they can feel completely alone.

If it is her first clutch she may well lay on and off for a few days. They tend not to drop a perfect clutch on their first attempt, especially if they are infertile. You never know they may well be infertile.

In terms of calcium its essential you get it into her. I would be on liquid calcium right away as Tracie suggested.



I do not by ANY means want to alarm or upset you, but I feel I should share the following with you.

Dex, my first darling rescue, who had been starved in her previous home, laid infertile eggs on and off for two weeks and unfortunatly the stress was too much on her weakened liver (this had not affected her before, but the vet guessed it was from the periods of starvation and feasting).
Dex refused to eat after laying her eggs, and i force fed her for two weeks before taking her to the vet. I had spoken to the vet and the rescue centre and they kept saying she might be laying another clutch so isnt interested in food yet.
Unfortunaly at that stage her liver had begun to fail and it was too late to try to save her.

All I would say is to keep a close eye on her when she stops laying. She should have an enormous appetite right away, if she doesn't I would strongly suggest taking her to the vet for a check up on all her functions.
He may want to give her a calcium shot himself aswell to boost her up again considering her MBD.
I really hope I havent alarmed or upset you, but I want you to be prepared to see the signs and take her into the vet, because I was not and it still haunts me. Its jsut with rescues we have to be extra carefull.

I'll be hoping for a normal healthy clutch for you.
Holly

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Thank you Holly, I totally agree. Rescues should not ever be bred, it is too hard on their systems.

Please keep us posted on your girl!

Tracie

 

[NegativeCreep]

Today she is still laying. I lost count of all the eggs already, and I'm fairly sure there are more in there, buried. I have removed the male for periods and put him in the 20L, but he really needs his UVB rays, as he is sick, too. The only other safe UVB bulb I have is Blaze's megaray, and it's too big for the 20L. She seems happier today, she is eating well - butters and supers. I gave her a bath earlier, and I am going to give her one more before lights out and snatch the rest of the eggs.

I remember your story about Dex, Holly. It was so sad. I will keep a close eye on her. I will look into the liquid calcium, but I would have to order it online, so it will be a week before I can get it (especially since its the weekend). They have already improved 10 fold since I have gotten them. I was petting on Lo last night and noticed she is going into shed (yeah, during laying ), but I am hoping her skin improves a bit.

Thanks so much for all the advice. It is so very appreciated.

 

[NegativeCreep]

Rescues should not ever be bred, it is too hard on their systems.

I don't suppose that was aimed at me. She was obviously gravid when I got her. I would never breed her, especially given her condition. But, I highly advocate fixing animals. Both of my cats have been spayed and unnecessary breeding would be irresponsible. I hope she pulls through this, but she's tough. She's already proven that!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Oh no, of course not! I know that she was most likely already gravid when you got her.
It was just a reminder for people. Unfortunately, there are alot of people who breed no matter the condition of the dragon which is sad.
I hope she will be ok. It sounds like she has a great appetite though!

Keep us posted.

Tracie