*not* possible MBD; prob just a shed issue

[faelexia]

We just got Cosmas around june 15, he is about 6.5 inches long head to tail. When I bought him, he seemed fine and had a big appetite, but was being kept with many beardies (more than one clutch). He grows about a half inch a week now, enjoies a variety of dusted crickets and maybe a dubia roach-ling (a baby dubia) if he wants, I also offer fresh dandelion greens and carrot shreds from an organic coop grocery (only like $1.50 every week). I have tried collards and kale, they dont really like the collards, and all of my beardies will accept the dandelion greens by hand.

Today we noticed that there are two little nubs, almost like protruding bones at the base of the tail on the back of our littlest dragon. We are moderately worried, but we do frequent warm baths (including today) and are confident that everyone is pooping as they should be, and so it could not be impaction, right? We keep a basking spot lamp over the warm side of the terrarium, with basking spot at 110-105F (depending where on the stick they decide to bask) and the general warm side being in the 80s and the cool side around 75F. There is also a NEW 10.0 UVB bulb in his enclosure

Recently we started dusting their food more (with calcium w/ d3 powder and miner-all), but have always done it regularly with the calcium, only recently did we start miner-all dusting.

We are looking for what you think this might be, so here are some pictures of the little protruding nubs. To be clear, no skin is broken or breaking, and it doesn't look like a cyst because it is very thin, not poofy.

We are planning to take him to the vet soon but want to see what you guys think this may be..

Also he is in shed right now. He's already shed more of his tail even though i just took these pics 40 minutes ago.
Here are pics on flickr of Cosmos' tail base issue. Is this reminiscent of MBD??

We think it is a MBD problem and even though he has a UVB bulb on for at least 12 hours a day, we have decided we are going to put them in an outside enclosure for at least two hours a day to ensure they get plenty of UVB and UVA every day. (We did this today - and added a shady section to protect against the glass magnifying heat or rays and to provide protection from the sun.)

 

[Gail]

That doesn't look like MBD at all, just looks like his hip bones are showing through the skin a bit. He's growing fast and its possible the bones are growing quicker then he is putting on muscle, feed him a but more if he will take it.
He looks healthy, I wouldn't worry unless he shows other symptoms like shaking or twitching.

 

[faelexia]

Yeah I was wondering if it was something like that. His legs are strong, he's definitely not paralyzed or twitching, and he has a good grip with his toes and legs. All of our beardies seem really healthy in general but for the past few days Cosmos has not been quite as hungry as usual - maybe a couple days of not quite as hungry can do that (this issue) to a little baby dragon. Thanks for your opinion!

More advice welcome!

 

[faelexia]

i guess my boyfriend is really worried because he feels like he hasnt been eating too much in the last two days. Is this normal right before a shed? He wouldnt even accept a mealworm, which is like his fave. (we only give him white mealworms that have just shed and have a soft exoskeleton).

He's taken two poos just today in the bath. We are kinda worried. Is this just no big deal, and we are noob dragon owners? or is this a big problem?

We are trying to get him to eat more but he just turns his head for the past two days. He might be eating when we arent looking though.

 

[faelexia]

Should we go get some wax worms to fatten them up a little bit? are they safe for baby dragons?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

No, that doesn't look like metabolic bone disease. He just needs to put some weight on.
The waxworms are ok, but not as a staple though. The mealies are usually not a very good source of protein for babies. Do you use roaches or crickets?
There are reptiworms or calcium worms otherwise known as Phoenix worms that are calcium loaded which he would like.

Tracie

 

[Gail]

Shedding can make them go off food for a few days. At this time, its no big deal and you guys don't need to worry

 

[randommonks]

Hi I read in your history that you had wanted to put your two dragons together. Have you done that? If he's being housed with a larger dragon, the larger dragon may be preventing him from eating all that he wants.

 

[faelexia]

as i said in my first post, our staple feeders are gutloaded crickets and gutloaded dubia roaches. recently shed (white) mealworms are a treat, or dinner spoiler so we dont feed those very often.

We are only thinking about getting a small batch of wax worms to fatten up the kid so we cant see his hip bones anymore. No anorexic dragons!

We'll probably just give him one or two of them.

I have looked into phoenix worms/repitworms/calciworms and we are considering it.

Any opinions on silkworms?

 

[faelexia]

We give them time apart and often will feed them separately or take the other out of the tank. There is very little territorial-ness going on in the tank.

It makes a lot of sense that a little dragon growing 1/2 inch a week would need some extra fats on him.

We don't just throw the crickets in there and wait, we spend a lot of time with them while they eat.

I think Gail is right that when they are going through a shed they dont always eat as much - do you agree?

 

[randommonks]

We give them time apart and often will feed them separately or take the other out of the tank. There is very little territorial-ness going on in the tank.

It makes a lot of sense that a little dragon growing 1/2 inch a week would need some extra fats on him.

We don't just throw the crickets in there and wait, we spend a lot of time with them while they eat.

I think Gail is right that when they are going through a shed they dont always eat as much - do you agree?

They do tend to eat less while shedding. Darwin, a few days ago, only had about 3 roaches at his evening feedin, instead of his usual 5-6 while his back was shedding. I think they're just uncomfortable.

I do know that sometimes dragons can be shy eaters. I know if I heard Darwin munching down on his greens I'll whip around to look, and he'll immediately glare at me for watching him eat. Before, he used to stop altogether and run back to bask.

I know you've been advised to keep them separated, and I would tend to agree with them. But it's good that you're keeping a close eye on them!

 

[faelexia]

I mean I would consider that (food-competition) as a possibility, but this little guy is normally the shark of the tank and he chases and chomps whatever he wants usually. So it makes sense to me that this might be a shedding thing. We will be sure to get right on the hip bones and make sure he gets somethin in that belly soon. He has been pooping so I know he has been eating something.

I also feed dandelion greens as a staple, with carrot shreds and bell pepper, or yellow squash. Sometimes I get kale instead of d greens.

My boyfriend did some reading last night too and heard that a lack of appetite can be from not getting a good nights sleep.

So we closed off the tank and put up curtains around it last night. We always have the lights off by 10:30 but we were extra careful with the tv noise and to turn it off by a good time, were as sometimes we leave the TV on really late and really loud. I turned the lights on a little while ago, so i'm about to get them all to eat. We'll see what happens to a morning offering.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Good, just ensuring that the waxies or mealies wont be a regular staple, etc. You don't want to feed to often to contribute to fatty liver disease.
If the tank is not dark enough, that can affect his sleeping, or if it is too noisy that will definitely keep him awake a lot of times. They do well on 10-12 hours of nighttime sleep.
How is his shedding coming along today?

Tracie

 

[faelexia]

He finally ate one waxworm, but we rarely buy those. Crickets and Dubias are our usual feeders.

his whole tail has shed and it looks like he will shed his body soon. Will continue with regular baths.