Not eating well, very small beardie for his age...

[jymcd]

I thought I posted this, but it didn't show up so I'm posting again. Sorry if there is a duplicate. I am so so new to discussion boards.

I have 3 major concerns with my beardie. We purchased him Feb. 28th. I was told he was about 4wks old.
1. He's not eating well and it's been getting progressively worse (over the last month). He is offered crickets (was dusting with RepCal w/ vit D daily but quit as of 3 days ago because I was told by a breeder at the reptile store it was not absolutely nec and that it tastes bitter and may be why he's not eating crickets anymore), meal worms (I know those aren't the best choice, but for a while it was all he would eat but I wouldn't give him more than 3small a day), he has eaten phoenix worms but quit those after a week (this was several months ago as I can't get them shipped to me if the temps are over 85 and I'm in Tucson, AZ. We blew past 85 in April!) and just recently I tried, wax worms of which he's eaten only two in 3 days. He gets greens every day in the AM (kales, collards, dandelion grns. etc.) Haven't seen him touch them in a looooong time. He looks at the crickets and might attempt a catch, but just isn't really interested. He'll lick the wax worm but doesn't go after it like the gal at the reptile store said he would. "He'll go crazy for them!" they said. Uummm...nope.

2. He is SMALL for a 5-6 month old beardie, no?

3. After being up for about 6 hours, he hides in the corner of his cage, farthest from the basking spot for the rest of the day. Never moves again till the next day. At least, I don't see him move. It's like he's trying to get away from the light but he won't hide *in* anything. Pushes it aside and hides behind it, up against the glass in the corner. I read the best way to determine how much uva/uvb is best is to observe your beardie. So I was turning off the lamp at 2pm (on around 7-9am) because he was hiding so much at the opposite end of the cage. Then I see most ppl have theirs on a 10/14 (or is it the opposite?) split so I got a timer and now he's on 13/11 split. Heck! I just don't know what's best!!

Set up:
20 g tank
100W PowerSun MVB at one end of tank (see photo)
Basking spot under lamp 100-110- it varies. I just today built up his basking spot so he could get closer to the light (thus 100-110 temp basking measurement) which is not reflected in the attached photo. We have swamp cooling and I think that is why basking temp fluxuates so much? Our house is never the same temp for more than 20mins at a time.
"Hot" side of tank measures at about 93-95.
Cool spot at the end where he sleeps- 80-85 during the day and down to roughly 76-79 at night
Digital thermometer with probe is used inside tank.
Bowl of water (I hold him under the faucet- very small stream- every other day. He will drink 1 out of every 3 times offered.
Carpet (he had a nasty habit of getting that darn substrate in his eye so we just decided to get rid of it till he got bigger. He's only a little bigger!)

Now, he gets a good soak about once a week- but didn't get any for the first 4 months as I didn't know it was important.
He has had one full shed. About 6-8 weeks after we brought him home.

I've read and read and read here. I've read and read and read elsewhere on line. I've talked to different people at the reptile store where I got him. So much contradcting info out there! The ppl at the store said if he's gaping it's too hot. I read they SHOULD be gaping at the basking spot, it's how they cool off (high heat is nec for proper digestion) he just started gaping at his basking spot after I moved it up closer to the light. I was sold Rep Cal w. Vit D and Rep Cal MultiVit and was told to dust daily with the calcium and thrice a week with the mulit. A different person at the store just told me 3 days ago not to dust at all, that it really isn't nec if they are getting proper nutrition, which I think Bubbas was getting up until most recently. I'm sort of loosing my mind because I don't know what to do. I read about burmation, but I don't think that explains his size and the timing doesn't seem right. Again, we got him Feb. 28th so he's at least 4+ months old (he was so very small when we got him). Maybe it's the PowerSun all in one UVA/UVB plus heat lamp? I've read that lamp can be crap. Maybe I need a lamp that isn't all in one? just want the little guy to eat. When he's up and awake( roughly 8 am to 1pm) he's very alert and seems fine. But what do I know? I'm a newbie to this! Any suggestions? Thank you so much-

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

The Powersun may be a questionable light due to them having some trouble with their glass, etc. It has been known to emit the incorrect wavelength which can cause health issues. Try turning the light off & using just a bright white light for basking first to see if he improves.
The supplementation should be calcium 4-5 times per week with vitamins 1-2 times per week.
How many feedings per day do you give? Babies should be fed 2-3 times per day if possible to help spread out the nutritiion.
He is a little small but very cute!

Tracie

 

[jymcd]

Thanks Tracie. I will try the bright white bulb and turn off the PowerSun. Is coiled compact fluorescent ok or should I get an incandescent? What wattage would you suggest to achieve a 100+ basking area? Also, let's say I just want to get rid of the all in one lamp eventually (I want to provide Bubbas with an actual viv here in the next few months instead of this all glass set up that looks like an aquarium). I would then get a uv light, plus a separate lamp for heat, right? Then when winter comes maybe one of those ceramic heating "lamps" for night time as it does get quite chilly here during those months. Can you (or any other member) offer a lighting set up suggestion? Brand name, etc.?

Re: feeding schedule--I used to drop in 7 or 8 at a time (they were teeny crickets!) and he'd chase after them and eat 'em all up! Once a day. I also used to drop 5 or 6 Phx worms in his little dish and he'd gobble them up. As I said, it didn't take long for him to start rejecting those.
I see now that I should have done a split feeding spread out during the day. He's never eaten more than 10 crickets in one day. I'd read to drop in as many as he could eat in 5 mins. The past month I've only dropped in one or two at a time because I don't like chasing the crickets around the viv trying to get them out again so as not to allow them time to chew on Bubbas little toes.
I'll start dusting again.
Thanks again.

 

[diamc]

He is a cute little guy, love his coloring.

I have to agree with Tracie about turning the Powersun off. We actually don't recommend using a mercury vapor bulb on any tank smaller than a 40 gallon breeder. MVB's throw out a lot of heat and also UV rays so the recommended distance for a 100 watt MVB is a minimum of 12" with 14 to 16" being safer. That distance is actually impossible in only a 20 gallon tank. You may not even need a 100 watt bulb in that sized tank, I would suggest starting with a 60 watt standard white household light bulb and see what temps you get then. Would be best if you get a Repti-Sun 10.0 fluorescent tube or an Arcadia bulb for the UVB. Please make sure NOT to get any type of coil or compact UVB though.

I see you're using a probe thermometer, make sure you place the probe end right on the basking spot and then wait 45 min to an hr for the temp to stop rising before getting the final basking temp. Then place the probe end way over on the bottom of the cool side and again wait the required amount of time there. Since he's been moving away from the MVB, I suspect your temps readings are off or he just doesn't like the bulb which is making him uncomfortable.

Would be a good idea to offer the crickets 3 times a day, a small amount at a time so as to not overwhelm him. Perhaps the crickets are jumping around too much making it difficult for him to catch them. If that's the case, you could put 1/2 dozen in a ziploc bag and place in the fridge for a minute or so to help slow them down.

Let us know how things go.

 

[jymcd]

Ok, so I've removed the MVB lamp and have replaced it with a 60w regular ole' household light bulb. He's not getting any uva/uvb now. I'll make sure the temps get up to where they should be all around the tank (looks like I might need a 75w... 60w is only getting up to 93/95 degrees at the basking site) and report back in a couple of days. He ate one cricket today. He very closely watched the wax worm move around, even licked it. But that was it. He either ate a meal worm or it crawled out of the food dish and under the carpet somewhere. Didn't want to disturb Bubbas too much so I didn't lift up the carpet all the way.

Meanwhile, I think I'll start looking for a 40 gal viv which has a lid that will take the ReptiSun 10.0 fluorescent tube you suggested, diamc. I would then need an additional lamp for basking (heat) am I correct? I thought I understood all this stuff. I don't think that anymore. :?

Other than Craig's List, any suggestions on where to look for a used 40g viv?

Thanks again for the advice/feedback.

 

[diamc]

If you're using a white standard bulb, he IS getting UVA just not UVB right now. How long did you wait to get the 93/95 degree reading with the 60 watt bulb? When you get the 40 gallon tank, you can actually continue to use a household bulb, you don't have to pay the extra $ for an expensive reptile bulb, you're only paying for the brand. It's amazing how much heat a 100 watt household bulb puts out.

Hopefully his appetite will start increasing daily.

Some 2nd hand stores have tanks for sale. You could also check Petco or Petsmart, the 40 breeders really aren't very expensive.

 

[jymcd]

I waited an hour and a half for the reading. It was 93.7 when the swamp was on and 95.8 when the swamp was off. The probe was actually touching the fake log, right under the lamp. So what I've done is use a 75w Repti Basking Spot Lamp that I already had and am now in the process of adjusting that so the temps are correct.

I do think Bubbas was way too hot with the PowerSun. I didn't understand that I had to have to probe *touching* the the basking spot. It was just sort of hanging, an inch above the spot. Ugh.

 

[diamc]

What did you mean by "the swamp?"

Perhaps a 75 watt bulb will help or you could raise the basking spot.

It does make sense that he was too hot with the MVB, also possible that he didn't like the strong UV rays either at the close distance. Bet you will notice a difference in him very soon, GOOD JOB.

 

[Esther19]

Diane, I think she means a swamp cooler. Like a room air conditioner, I think.

 

[jymcd]

Yes, I did mean swamp cooler. Thanks Esther19

Raise the basking spot...why didn't I think of that? I put in the 75w and got the basking spot set up at 103.3F before Bubbas' bedtime. Will work on the cool spot tomorrow.

I understand uva vs uvb now. :Lighting Help for Newbies: on the Enclosures board was terrifically helpful!!
Thank you

 

[jymcd]

Great news! Removed the PowerSun mvb about 24 hours ago and put on just a 75w Reptile Basking bulb. Bubbas woke up and immediately ate a sm meal worm. I left for the morning and when I came back, offered him a wax worm...he ate it! Offered him 3 more wax worms and he ate them all!! Not chasing crickets yet, but wow! This is the most he's eaten (in one day) in a month...maybe more! Horray!!! Ordering the ReptiSun 10.0 fluorescent tube today and attaching it. Will he be ok with no UVB for another 2 days?

Basking point is 103.3.
Cool side 81.5 plus or minus
Hot side right around 94
Thanks again and again for your advice about removing that mvb. Keeping my fingers crossed that Bubbas continues to improve.
Jen

 

[diamc]

Diane, I think she means a swamp cooler. Like a room air conditioner, I think.

Oh, ok, thanks Esther.

That's SO great that Bubbas is eating again. Since wax worms are so addictive to them (like beardie candy), it would probably be a good idea to offer crickets first each time.

Good that you're going to order the Repti-Sun tube. He will be ok with no UVB for a few days but if you can take him outside for a little sun each day, that would be a good idea. Be sure to use a leash though as they can run very fast if they get scared.

The temps sound good.

Hopefully he'll increase his activity level and appetite daily.

 

[jymcd]

Update:

Last week I removed the MVB lamp and replaced it with a basking lamp and (just today) added the reptisun 10.0. Bubbas is doing *much* better. He stays up longer (still hides in the corner of his cage around 3pm if we don't take him out and handle him at that time-) and he is eating again. He is not, however, eating *any* crickets. Not one! And he's not eating a lot of anything. His staple at the moment is 3-5 very small meal worms and 2-3 wax worms each day. He is pooping daily so I don't think meal worms are a problem right now. I should be getting phx worms tomorrow (FloridaHerps). I really hope he'll take to those because I don't know what else to offer daily in place of crickets. In short--he's doing better. Not as good as I'd hoped, or as good as he was when we got him (in terms of eating) but consistently, slowly, better.
Jen

 

[jymcd]

Yay! Bubbas ate at least 1 maybe 2 crickets today! First time In weeks that he's eaten anything other than wax or meal worms. Recovery is slow but sure.

 

[diamc]

That's awesome that Bubbas is starting to eat crickets now, offer them several times a day if you can.