Normal for beardie to just get "moody"? Also Care Opinions.

[darknezz]

Hello again, I posted awhile back about tail rot on my little beardie. It ended up coming back after that and had to be cut off further up the infection. Hes fine now. Heres that old topic.
http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=122335&p=971792#p971792

Heres him now and his new setup.

Hes doing good, eats like crazy, I switch up between a multivitamin with d3 and straight calcium every other day. I give him 6-10 large crickets every day then a bowl of lettuce later. I try to take him out every day and hand feed lettuce/grapes/apple if I have it around.

His habitat is calcium repti-sand, there is 2 heat pads to the left inside under the sane and one on the other side outside the glass on the right. I only run the heat pads in the cold weather. A 18" desert floro and a 75 watt zoomed basking lamp. The temp at the high spot of his log is 90-105 in light and at night doesn't drop below 65. It looks a little close, but that is what the temp is coming out to be at that spot and he moves down when he gets to hot.

The real question of this thread is: he gets moody for a few days every month or so. He might be a girl :wink: It seems to be around his shedding as well. Normally he wants to get out of his tank and is easily picked up but when in this mood he will try to run and even open his mouth and stand up tail ready in aggression.

Is this a normal behavior? Is he just uncomfortable because of shedding?

On a side note, how often should he have a bowl movement? It seems like it should be more, he only goes every 3-4 days.

And overall how am I taking care of him?
Oh and How is he growing? It feels like he should be bigger now as hes almost a year old.

I was thinking he needs a place to hide in and get dark to chill him out sometimes? Maybe even a bigger tank? He gets restless and rubs back and fourth on the sides if I dont take him out and let him run around.

Thanks

 

[Jess]

Well, there are a few things about your set up that need changing. First off is the sand. Calcium sand is especially dangerous to them... Youll want to read this: http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=132151
What UVB are you using? If its a Zilla brand, toss it. Those are pretty craptastic lights. Reptisuns are the best out there right now, and you can order them for really cheap at LLLReptile or Petmountian. Heat pads arent generally recomended either, so you might want ot get a ceramic heat emittter instead if your night time temps drop below 65*F. Do you know the temps in your viv?

And back to your original question now... Yes, some of them will get kinda crabby when its shedding time! Its pretty uncomfortable for them, and I know I would probably be crabby too LOL.
Going to the bathroom every 3-4 days isnt too bad. How ofter do you soak him?
I would feed him more too. At a year, they are still growing and need a good about of buggies. Once he is 1 1/2-2 yrs, he can have 30-50 feeders/ week.


How big is he, and how big is his viv? Looking at the pic of him on your hand, he looks a little on the small side for an adult, but they all grow differently I guess. They should have at least a 40 gal breeder.

 

[darknezz]

Yeah the uva 18" is a zilla, I'll get a reptisun bulb for it in a few months when it needs changing anyway. The sand is calcium, it specifically said for bearded dragons and a local private reptile pet shop guy uses it for even his baby beardies and he says it fine. Yeah Ive wanted to get a heat emitter and ditch the pads, that was so the wires arnt showing though, I'll need a separate timer for it too. I only use the pads when its really cold anyway and like I said there under the sand and stickied UNDER THE TANK. Yes I have a thermo visible in the pic and it doesnt get under 65 at night, 90-105 in the day in the hotestspot. I don't monitor humidity though.

How much should I feed him? It seems like if I poured a 100 crickets in his tank he would eat everyone, so I give him 6-10. 30-50 large crickets a week is about what I've been feeding him. He has as much lettuce and veggies as he can eat. I feel hes small too, but he also has a rough start from the P.O. and the tail rot. I give him a bath and soak once a week and he allways has water in his bowl and he sits in it too.

the tank is about a foot deep. foot tall and 2 1/2 feet long.

thanks for the input!

 

[Monkey]

well that is likely why he's moody, he is not feeling well.
He is very small for his age as well too, which is likely due to the wrong lighting, if I were you I would change it instantly and you will likely see his mood improve in a month. That is how BAD that brand is.. you are getting a sick beardie likely with MBD too. (metabolic bone disease)

Also he needs way more crickets, try 80 a day or 100, a young beardie is expensive to feed they go cheaper when fully grown when its only 50 a week with veggies ... You can also often find waxworms, phoenix worms etc in the store. Once you feed him more with the right light he will feel better. He will also poop more, when my was young she pooped almost daily, now as older she does it more rarely.

The hotspot needs to be at least 110 as long as he's young and growing constantly in the daytime, coolside about 80-85. Once he gets older hot spot should not be over 110 but more around 95-100, I have a bigger tank so mine can thermoregulate as she feels for. Her favorite hang out spot is 98 degrees. But there is days where she use the hotter one as well, she likes it like that but thats not always common for them.

Very often a grumpy beardie means error in the husbandry, they are not a grumpy animal normally. Mine has NEVER had a grump day in her life.
and when you buy the reptisun, by the 10.0 esp so he can make up for lost growing time and please do it today his behavior will likely go worse unless you do it but worse is his health. If he gets too stressed he might get parasites, all beardies naturally carries parasites within, and when stressed they can take over and make your pet very very sick. So it's very important to get it all right, I just went through the same with my savannah monitor, it's a more advanced lizard to own and I ended up having EVERYTHING wrong. And they usually die quickly if you don't get it right, mine is still alive knock wood but god knows it aint easy. Beardies are more sturdy thank god.

Also I don't know if you do this, but give him a daily soak in lukewarm water for about 15-20 minutes, this will help hydrate them and prevent things like constipation etc.

For substrate you can just use linoleum carpet or tile, it's easy to clean and keep nice and neat, it's more healthy too and can't collect parasites.
You are doing the most important thing you are finding information, I think he will do very well in your care

But again I would not wait with changing the lighting it is WAY more important than people think.
The ones selling it should have their bulbs stuck up somewhere nicely put. They play big time with peoples pets health and for that I can not have repsect!

 

[Jess]

That sand is NOT safe for any beardie, baby or adult. The package says its digestable, but when its wet it basically turns into cement. If you google it, you will find plenty of pics of necropsies and X-rays from beardies that have eaten it.

Like Monkey said, the UVB is very important- The Zilla is probably what is causing all your problems. IMO those are the worst bulbs out there right now. Get a ReptiSun ASAP, not in a few months.

He should be having as much as he can eat right now... So if he can down 100 a day, give him 100 a day. The amount youve been feeding him has probably been messing with his growth too.

The UTHs have a tendancy to burn them too. IMO it is OK to use them under, like, slate tile because they cant dig under it and get burned. But with sand and most other substrates, they can burrow under it and come in direct contact with the heaters.

 

[darknezz]

Well thanks for the input. Sorry I've tried to take good care of him but its sometimes hard, I'm young with allot of bills. I will try to get a reptisun bulb on the 15th of next month when I get paid. No money right now and no money on the first due to rent.

He is normally very friendly and healthy acting. I have tried to take the best care of him with crickets, vitamins, lighting and tank. When I got him he was under a red uvb light only and I was like wtf and went out and got a desert cfl immediately, then "thought" I upgraded to the 18" zilla a few months later. I didnt know they were so bad, its all they had at petco.

I still dont think sand is that bad, but I also see many valid points. I'll pick up some nice looking counter top tile and ditch the sand when I have a few bucks.

I will increase feeding from 10 crickets once a day to 15 or so twice a day along with veggies. But I can not afford more than that. 80 large crickets a day is ridiculous. I'm going to look into buying bulk meal worms online for cheap from a friends suggestion.

As far as the heaters he doesnt dig were the in tank heaters are, he digs on the right side under his hammock and log, which is where the uth is. But I think Ill ditch the intank ones for looks, it doesnt get that cold and he digs in the sand on the right and snuggles up to the outside tank heater pad on really cold nights, ive felt the pads and they are not hot.

I moved the thermo and the hotspot pretty much is 105-110 during the day, think thats fine. The cool side is like 80, he doesnt go over there much though, sits in his water sometimes. I will also start trying to soak him more often.

again thanks for the input.

 

[gogga]

First off all the advise given was great advice. Why ask if you dont want to follow it ???

I will increase feeding from 10 crickets once a day to 15 or so twice a day along with veggies. But I can not afford more than that. 80 large crickets a day is ridiculous

The statement about 80 crickets a day being rediculous - Why is it rediculous? Its what they need. Some eat 50, some 80 and some even consume 120 per day while under 1 year of age. Would you like being rationed to lets say 1/2 burger every day because someone thought consuming a whole one is rediculous ???

I'm going to look into buying bulk meal worms online for cheap from a friends suggestion.

Mealworms arent good for beardies due to the shell / chitin ration, but you say you want to buy bulk mealworms to feed. This WILL cause problems with your baby.

I still dont think sand is that bad, but I also see many valid points. I'll pick up some nice looking counter top tile and ditch the sand when I have a few bucks.

Its good that youre gonna ditch the sand, but why wait? If you cant buy shelf liner / tiles now. Use newspaper. Its cheap and temporary. Or you can use it permanently.

As far as the heaters he doesnt dig were the in tank heaters are, he digs on the right side under his hammock and log, which is where the uth is. But I think Ill ditch the intank ones for looks, it doesnt get that cold and he digs in the sand on the right and snuggles up to the outside tank heater pad on really cold nights, ive felt the pads and they are not hot.

Like evryone has said. They can cause severe burns. beardies feel heat from above NOT below. Even if it doesnt feel hot to the touch. Put your palm/wrist on it for 10 hours (Normal sleep time) non stop and see how NOT HOT it gets

Im sorry if I come across as rude, but why ask if youre gonna do what you want anyway?

 

[Monkey]

I dont mean to be mean, but maybe you should look into buying crickets in bulk online? where you can get a big discount. all you need is a big tub to have them in, you can feed them left overs and crick food and crick water (only like 3 bucks each in petco and lasts for months) this will gutload your crickets and they will be more nutrional. I can relate to the lack of money, I would say just dont use the zilla for now. Thats better than using it till you can get a real light.

About the lack of crickets though, if you can't afford that more than that he will never be big and fat, you are in a way starving the animal. That is not good, I can comfort you with that once he's done growing, all he needs is about 50 crickets a week and the rest veggies..

I just got one today, he's on the skinny side an adult, but he will need easy a ton of cricket a day till he fattened up.

Maybe you can just find an extra job that can give you them extra 20 bucks a week? walks someones dog or something? its only till he is about a year and a half or so.. Then its really cheap to have them cause for 10 dollars you get veggies that lasts for two weeks and for another 5 in petco you get 50 waxworms, or enough crickets to cover the protein side of it all.

You will get there don't worry, I can tell you love him so I have no doubt in that you will get there..

oh and about the sand you can just dump it and use newspaper for now, its better for him, its not as pretty but at least that will prevent him from eating the sand in hunger now that could be really expensive at the vets office if he did.. I have seen dragons die from it, no fun..

Good luck!

 

[darknezz]

First off all the advise given was great advice. Why ask if you dont want to follow it ???

I am following it.

Im going to get a new bulb, Im going to get rid of the sand and Im going to feed him more.

Yes I have read about the meal worms being bad, but also have talked to many experienced dragon owners in real life who have used them forever and never had any problems, they say to cut off the heads. I'll look at bulk crickets online too I guess, and yeah I use those orange cube cricket food things.

80 crickets just sound like sooo much, these crickets are big, I cant see how he can possibly even hold that many in his little stomach, he gets fat just from the 15 I give him. At the same time you are all saying to feed him as much as he can eat I've read that "power" feeding them can also be bad.

I think I'll stick to 30-40 crickets a day. Its twice as much as I've been giving him. How much more is it going to make him grow if I do all these changes this late? Hes almost a year old.

 

[Jess]

See, if these "experienced" beardie owners are telling you to cut the heads off mealies, they arent half as experienced as you think! :roll: Thats an old myth, and it makes no sense... Its impossible for a mealworm to chew its way out of a lizards stomach. Bulk crickets or roaches are your best bet- Mealworms will only give you more problems and vet bills.

Feeding them as much as they will eat isnt "Power Feeding" them. Thats the amount that they are supposed to be fed... They need all of those calories to grow. You also cant always judge their fatness by their stomach either- That isnt where they store fat. If they eat alot, of course their stomach will look bigger, but Ive seen dragons with huge stomachs that have sunken in fat pads and no fat what so ever at the base of their tails.

If you feed him right and have the proper lighting, I think youd be suprised. They dont stop growing until theyre around 2 yrs, and Ive even heard of them growing after that.

 

[gogga]

these crickets are big,

Are you checking to make sure that they arent bigger than the space between his eyes ??? Feeding too big crickets can cause impactations.

If I look at his pictures he should be eating no biger crickets than medium sized ones (about 1/2 inch ones)

See, if these "experienced" beardie owners are telling you to cut the heads off mealies, they arent half as experienced as you think! Thats an old myth, and it makes no sense... Its impossible for a mealworm to chew its way out of a lizards stomach. Bulk crickets or roaches are your best bet- Mealworms will only give you more problems and vet bills.

I have to agree on this one.

 

[fez09]

I agree with the advice given, but I wanted to add that in his pics I can see how underweight he is. He has no fat pads on his head and I can also see hip bones. If you can feed him 30-40 crickets per day plus good veggies (collard greens or mustard greens) that will be a good improvement. Also, I do want to stress the sand issue. I had a beardie that was VERY impacted with sand and it caused some problems and was a month before I could get her well again, it's so much cheaper, cleaner and safer...The Reptisun 10.0 should help too just make sure that it's the tube. I have a feeling that you will get your baby healthy very soon! Good luck, can't wait to see some new pics in a week or two to see the improvements!

 

[darknezz]

The crickets are around 1/2 inch, I thought that was big. Thats the largest ones I can get anyway.

I will try to find bulk crickets online and get them ordered when I get paid at the end of this month and get some tile for him. I might be able to squeeze in a new bulb too.

I noticed now that I'm giving him more crickets hes not so interested in the lettuce, ( I usually give him red leaf along with fruit treats of whatever I have) I will start getting mustard/collard greens.

I'll post a few weeks after I get a new bulb to either mid next month or end of next month.

Thanks all.

 

[Monkey]

as long as he's growing and he's as thin as he is he will be on a ratio 80%/20% of crickets and salad, once he's filled out and fully grown you will see it change to about the opposite. Sure mine still prefer crickets or worms if I let her (brat). BUt she will eat her salad happily. She gets about 50 feeders a week and the rest salad,and them she eats in one sitting.. if she after that don't wanna eat salad, tough for her.. I don't budge.. but mine is at a healthy weight so she can starve a week or two without nothing noticing. Not that she ever would cause she eats her salad before that *lol*
Can't wait to hear about the update, you are such a loving mommy!

 

[darknezz]

Uhm I'm a guy :|

Just a quick update. Been feeding him as many crickets as he will eat a day, which seems to be 30-40. After that he just lets them run around and I take them out at night. He shed the rest of his skin and has been acting normal since. Looks like hes about to shed his legs again though. I also got tiles for the tank floor and cleaned everything up. I do like it better compared to the sand, he always got sand in his water and food bowls.

I'll get a new bulb on the 15th when I get paid next.