Scrammy":12t4efn0 said:When i had my first baby i was told by a petco employee (who had her own beardie) only to feed her like 5-10 crickets every other day. .. Cuz we wouldnt want her to get to big. We didn't know any better... So thats what we did. I still feel so terrible about that!!!
WolfMama":yfmhedzp said:I completely disagree that they can be overfed on staple food. Every reputable source I've read states otherwise. Only the pet shops and certain vet sources say otherwise - and a few people on youtube who also list a plethora of other misinformation. And, they should be receiving exercise. They can't go out and get their own food, and if they could, they'd eat as much as they wanted to. And while I do not subscribe to the "in the wild" premises, when it comes to food they can eat as they like. There is no shortage of bugs in the Austrailian desert, nor of plant matter.
If a bearded dragon is "overweight" it's not going to be from vegetables, and approximately 80% of an adult bearded dragon's diet is plant matter. They prefer that to crickets when they are older. So, as long as they are fed their veggies, they won't overeat. And, one should consider looking to whether or not they are receiving viable options to exercise.
randommonks":1dv0gv2z said:Actually if you look at the photos of wild bearded dragons, they are normally skinny and dehyrated. That normally tells me that in the wild, food is scarce.
I've not really read that an older dragon prefers plants to insects. In fact, most people with adults have trouble getting their adults to eat veggies. Like Jess said earlier, it takes a week or so of eating nothing before they cave and eat some veggies. I've even read that someone's beardie ate nothing for almost a month and didn't cave.
Everyone is entitled to their own forms of care for their animals. What works for one may not work for the other. A few years ago, mealworms were used for baby beardies but, today, roaches are the new vogue. There is a general consensus here, but I would refrain from judging someone else too harshly for having a different opinion.
WolfMama":ycv1cmlc said:Nevertheless, I've read so many posts and articles, and talked with so many with adult beardies that have said that their bearded dragons love their vegetables. The problem you describe lies more with bearded dragons who were never introduced to the vegetables and therefore it is now a challenge for them to become accustomed to them. Yes, many have a difficult time introducing juvenile bearded dragons. Most often, I'm hearing that they are just not ready for them, as their primary diet at this age should is live staple, not vegetable.
WolfMama":ycv1cmlc said:You've quoted one portion of my post, but for some reason, I think you missed the intent of the OP and the entire concept. I suggest you review that, please. I've never heard of anyone withholding vegetables in order to get them to eat vegetables?
WolfMama":ycv1cmlc said:I do not agree that everyone is entitled to their own form of care. Food is not a choice - it's a need. Leaving an animal to live a life time in a viv is cruel. Not feeding an animal daily is cruel and unnessary (unless medically necessary). Adult bearded dragons need vegetables. And, in my reply to Jess I stated that there was no reason to withold vegetables.
WolfMama":ycv1cmlc said:I know not of what general consensus you speak of. I do see many loving bearded dragon "human parents"/"cartakers"/"slaves" on these forums And I find it a bit sad that they may seem "extreme" in some way. Rather, I see them as greatly improving the lives and care of these critters - where they otherwise would not receive what they need.
WolfMama":ycv1cmlc said:Please be very careful at suggesting that it would be normal to starve a bearded dragon for a month Every option should be tried before resorting to such an extreme measure.
Good, then you do not agree with withholding foodrandommonks":12robdm9 said:Ok I will try to address each of your points. Perhaps I wasn't clear. My point was that most of the posts I've read on this site have indicated that their dragons do not want vegetables when the time comes to make that transition. A lot of people have been trying to feed veggies since the dragons were babies, but the dragons never devleoped a taste for them. Darwin was a curious eater and I was lucky that he grew to like veggies.
randommonks":12robdm9 said:I have never, ever stated that anyone should withhold vegetables, especially to get them to eat vegetables. When the owner of an adult is having trouble getting the adult to cave in and eat veggies, they are advised to offer nothing except veggies daily until the dragon is consistently eating greens. Perhaps, again, I or Jess wasn't clear on this.
Your defense was to Jess' post (which I didn't feel he needed anyJess":12robdm9 said:"Babies should be fed every day for sure, I won't argue that. But if an adult beardie isn't fed every single day, I don't think it's the end of the world. "
randommonks":12robdm9 said:Then we can agree to disagree. Bearded dragons are very hardy creatures that have survived all manners of enclosures and care. I, for one, will not judge someone if they choose to raise a healthy beardie differently than I do.
randommonks":12robdm9 said:The general consensus I speak of is the way that most people on this site prefer to take care of their beardies- Reptisun 10.0, certain basking spot range, certain feeding schedule, certain greens, etc. I'm sorry if you misunderstood me, since that is the way that I take care of my dragons, so I'm not sure why you see them as extreme.
and I very clearly replied in agreement of how many of the people take the care needed, (my reply_randommonks":12robdm9 said:A few years ago, mealworms were used for baby beardies but, today, roaches are the new vogue. There is a general consensus here, but I would refrain from judging someone else too harshly for having a different opinion."
wolfmama":12robdm9 said:I know not of what general consensus you speak of. I do see many loving bearded dragon "human parents"/"cartakers"/"slaves" on these forums And I find it a bit sad that they may seem "extreme" in some way. Rather, I see them as greatly improving the lives and care of these critters - where they otherwise would not receive what they need.
You stated that people deny them food for an entire month in a manner that indicated this were normal and acceptable. I stated that denying food for medical reasons for a beardie's health is of course another matter and I would never suggest otherwise. It is heart wrenching when any care taker MUST do this, and I completely empathize. I do not feel that such an extreme measure should be recommended lightly. Again, what I said was,randommonks":12robdm9 said:Again, never suggested such a thing. Never have I suggested that it would be normal in any way to starve a beardie for a month, but I was simply citing an extreme example of the methods people have had to resort to get their adults to make the necessary transition from staple feeders to staple veggies for their own health.
"Please be very careful at suggesting that it would be normal to starve a bearded dragon for a month Every option should be tried before resorting to such an extreme measure. "
diamc":2mv9yqbq said:[This is a very good thread and a wonderful subject. It's fine to have a debate and a difference of opinion so let's try to get along and explain why/how we do different things a certain way and prove their way doesn't necessarily mean that the beardie is being deprived of food as a whole, rather than withholding feeders occasionally to help encourage them to eat their staple greens/veggies. Feeding babies is certainly a whole different entity as well as trying to get brumating beardies to eat daily. Please be polite and not attack any comments that have been posted, certainly don't want to have to lock this thread. Thanks]
diamc":eeb5e7oz said:I would like to add something. Someone (I'm not gonna go back through the whole thread to see who it was :wink: ) mentioned that they had heard that a rescued beardie shouldn't be offered food daily and wondered if it could be for medical reasons but seemed like they didn't really understand about it. What I and other owners that have had beardies for many years have stated on this forum is that if an emaciated beardie is given too much protein too quickly, it can overtax their systems which puts a big strain on the liver and kidneys, they need to be eased into the feeders very slowly. The main thing is to make sure the beardie is thoroughly hydrated first by giving frequent baths and oral fluids and a lot of times, it's suggested to start out by feeding small amounts of chicken (or turkey) baby food mixed with some squash baby food as that will be easier to digest and help to give them a boost. I just wanted to clarify this.
WolfMama":36zfc2fs said:And, while I did not address it, it is suggested by the more better care sheets, that even adults be fed all the live 1x/daySo, I do not feel that live STAPLE should be denied, either. Nevertheless, a salad should always be provided on a daily basis, and the comment made in the opening post was with regard to people who state that thye only feed their beardies 5x a week or less. Thus, there is really no reason to deny them even live on a daily basis, other then for medical or health necessity.
Jess":lo881ebh said:WolfMama, have you had an adult beardie before?
I agree with Randommonks.
Jess":lo881ebh said:But if an adult beardie isn't fed every single day, I don't think it's the end of the world.
randommunks said:“very hardy creatures that have survived all manners of enclosures and care. I, for one, will not judge someone if they choose to raise a healthy beardie differently than I do.”
snazzyglasses":3umv67qc said:Lots of posts on here since last time I checked
I don't want to hop in and start slinging opinions, mostly because I'm too tired lol!But I think the original post was about not following crappy petstore advice (and how terrible it is when animals suffer due to awful advice), like the crazy "6 crickets per day for a growing baby" petstore-given advice I read on here somewhere a while back... I don't even know how petstores come up with that. :shock:
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