No Longer as Concerned about my Beardies Health

Status
Not open for further replies.
im trying to be calm so heres what happened i have read the forums for a while now and i thought you could help im 12 years old and i have a beardie about 1 year old named Karl and he was sick just a few months ago with parasites specifically coccidia and the vet said he had worms he was on treatment for that for a while and it helped perk him up. Now he is being lethargic again and doesnt poop very often we were concerned since he hadn't pooped in 5 days. Today i came home saw he had pooped but it wasn't very healthy looking it had bits of undigested food and other weird things my mom is working late i texted her she said i shouldnt worry but to check the forums for help so i made this account i want to become a member of the community but first i need help.
Here is his info
His name is karl
He is one year old
I cant remember how long he is
His Vivarium is a 40 gallon i forgot the dimensions and he has a home at our cabin that is 20 gallons
he doesn't like his temps over 100 degrees so his basking spot is usually 90 to 110 degrees and cool side being at the lowest 85 degrees
His substrate is a reptile carpet that came with a nat geo terrarium kit which we have replaced all but he terrarium and the carpet
His diet consists of Super worms twice daily, Arugula + assorted greens carrot tops in a little bowl for whenever he is hungry, crickets occasionally, and other foods that i cant recall.
PLEASE HELP ME IM WORRIED FOR HIS HEALTH.

Will post more info when my mom gets off work.
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Can you post some photos of Karl and his setup? How long has his poop been odd? They can get upset stomachs now and then so it's not necessarily a big issue unless it becomes a trend. I would try offering some water by dripping it on his nose so he can lick it up. If he is well hydrated it may help him go a little more easily. You may want to consider a different staple bug than super worms and he should really only be at 1 bug meal per day and slowing that to bugs just once or twice per week over the next 6 months or so (gradually). At his age, he should be starting to get more into greens and veges anyway so I'd provide as much variety as you can and give him a nice big salad every day. If you grate or chop squash into worm shapes that tends to be popular with them. There are a lot of good options available on this list http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html I'd offer 2-3 items from that list and just rotate depending on what looks fresh at the store.

If you can bring a fresh poop sample to the vet for testing that will help rule out a heavy parasite load (which can be treated if it's the issue). I think adjusting his diet a bit may help him in the long run too.
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
He looks like he's a healthy weight and that's a nice setup for him. I would make some adjustments to his diet and see if that helps. If the messy poops continue for a few weeks then a fecal test is probably a good idea, but it may just be an upset stomach.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
He looks nice and big, but I'm assuming that most of his digestive issues are diet related, mostly due to the superworms. Superworms are kind of a controversial topic right now, a lot of people are starting to feed them as their beardie's main protein staple because they are easy to find and if you buy them in bulk online or from a local breeder that delivers to your house, they are very cheap, and also very filling. The problem is that #1) Superworms have a pretty high fat content in comparison to their protein, fibre, and vitamin/mineral content, and I'm afraid superworms are one of the main reasons for all these beardies recently developing fatty liver disease...#2) Superworms are giving your beardie an awful lot of hard shells, which we know can cause all kinds of digestive problems, especially if your temperature zones/gradient is off. The other issue.is that once a beardie has superworms they want no other bugs and refuse the healthy, high protein, low fat bugs like crickets, roaches, BSFL, etc. So people keep feeding them superworms even if they do try to change them to something else, because their beardies refuse the other bugs. The key to changing them over to a healthy feeder like gut-loaded crickets or roaches is to just completely stop feeding the superworms, give them their fresh greens/veggies every day and offer them the healthy live bugs every day, twice a day, even if they refuse them. And if they refuse them then just leave the fresh salad in for them and try offering the healthy bugs again later, then the next day, and so on. They will not starve themselves I promise, in fact most won't lose a gram by not eating any live bugs for a week. That's usually how long it takes, about a week of no superworms at all and daily offerings of the healthy bugs. They soon realized that they're not getting anymore Big Macs and they're going to have to eat the Skinless Chicken Breast instead, lol. But the owner has to be strong and get rid of the superworms, and not give in and offer them at all to their beardie while they're on their little hunger strike. And no other fatty "treat" bugs during this time either, like wax worms, butterworms, etc.

I'd also try to get your temperature zones/gradient tightened up a bit...Are you using stick-on thermometers, like the round ones that come in reptile kits? If so, please try to get a proper digital thermometer with a probe on a wire, they sell them at both Petco and PetSmart for $10, and they're not only extremely accurate, but you can actually take an accurate Basking Spot temperature by putting the probe right where your beardie sits to bask! Those cheap, stick-on thermometers are very, very inaccurate, most are off by 20 degrees or more, meaning you really have no idea what your temperatures are, and in addition, you cannot measure the temperature on his basking spot with one at all. So the $10 digital probe thermometer is a very inexpensive purchase that is one of the most important items you will ever buy for your beardie...

You should have 3 distinct temperatures that you check once a week to make sure they are within the correct temperature ranges, so that #1) Your beardie can properly digest his food and absorb nutrients from his food, #2) He has an area to go to at all times that is considerably cooler than his basking spot or the ambient temperature on the Hot Side of the enclosure, and #3) So that you know you're not literally "cooking" your beardie from the inside out, causing heat exhaustion or heat stroke. Those stick-on, round, guage thermometers can read 90 degrees on the Hot Side when the ambient Hot Side temperature is actually 110...Not only is this way too hot for his Hot Side Ambient temperature, but imagine how hot his basking spot is!!! So getting a proper probe thermometer and checking his enclosure temperature gradient weekly is essential to his all-around health, growth, and development.

Once you get the digital probe thermometer, make sure you've got your UVB tube right alongside the bright white basking bulb, and both are directly over his basking spot on the Hot Side of the enclosure. Put the probe on the basking spot (AFTER HIS LIGHTS HAVE BEEN ON FOR AT LEAST A COUPLE OF HOURS THAT DAY) and allow it to sit there for at least 20-30 minutes, then read his Basking Spot temperature. Then move the probe to the floor on the Hot Side, let the probe sit for 20-30 minutes, and then read the temperature. Then move the probe to the opposite Cool Side floor, let it sit for 20-30 minutes, then read the temperature. Record the temps and then you can raise or lower the basking bulb or possibly even change the wattage of the basking bulb accordingly, based on what the temps actually are...

BASKING SPOT: Should be between 98-103 degrees for a sub-adult to an adult, and for a baby to a juvenile between 105-110 degrees. 110 degrees is the absolute maximum temperature inside his enclosure.

HOT SIDE AMBIENT: Should be between 88-93 degrees, rather than "matching the basking spot temperature", as I've seen some people say recently. I think this reasoning is actually due to people using stick-on thermometers and they can't measure the basking spot temperature, so they just look at what the stick-on thermometer on the wall of the Hot Side says, and they use that as their basking spot temperature. Obviously the basking spot, which is much closer to the lights and directly under the lights is going to be considerably hotter than the surrounding Hot Side Ambient temperature, as it should be. This is a main reason for needing the digital probe thermometer. The basking spot is where your beardie goes after eating to digest his food and get both his UVB light, UVA light, and his heat, so it better be the correct temperature.

COOL SIDE AMBIENT: Should be between 75-80 degrees MAXIMUM!!! He should always have an area to go to that is considerably cooler than the Hot Side or Basking Spot. So if the Hot Side Ambient is between 88-93, his Cool Side Ambient, where he goes to be much cooler, better be at most 80 degrees.

NIGHTTIME: This is a tough one for people to understand, mainly because there are so many "Night Bulbs" for sale for bearded dragons. They are all completely unnecessary, disruptive to their sleep, and people waste millions of dollars each year on tons of unnecessary bulbs, thinking they are doing something good for their beardies, when in fact they're actually hurting them. Bearded dragons come from the Australian desert, which is very hot during the day, and much, much cooler at night. It's also very dark at night in the desert, pitch black in fact. So just like you're trying to replicate natural sunlight and desert temperatures with his daytime lighting, you want to replicate the much cooler desert temperature at night for your beardie as well. Most people need absolutely no nighttime heat source at all because most homes are kept at 60 degrees or higher at night. Your beardie's enclosure is going to naturally be a bit warmer than your house temperature, so as long as you keep your house at 60 degrees or above at nighttime (if you don't your house is freezing at night), your beardie's enclosure will stay at 65 degrees or above at night, which means he needs no nighttime heat source. He is actually extremely comfortable at 65 degrees as a nighttime enclosure temperature. If for some reason you quite literally freeze yourself at night, keeping your house temperature below 60 degrees constantly, you still do not want to use ANY type of bulb that emits light at night...Not a red bulb, not a purple bulb or a black bulb, not a "Moonlight" bulb that looks purple, no blacklights, no light at all. Your beardie sees in full color just like we do, so he needs it to be pitch black at night...Think about it, would you want your entire bedroom filled with a glowing red or purple light all night while you're trying to sleep? Nope, and neither does your beardie...If your house is kept consistently below 60 degrees at night and this causes your beardie's enclosure to drop below 65 degrees at night (again, this is going to be a very rare situation), then instead of a night bulb that emits any type or color of light, you need to buy a VERY LOW WATTAGE Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE), which screws into a regular lightbulb fixture but emits no light at all, it just puts out heat. Now again, your beardie likes his nighttime temperature to drop considerably cooler than his daytime temperatures, and needs no heat source at night at all if his enclosure is at 65 degrees or above...So if his tank drops to 55 or 60 degrees, you're only trying to bump the nighttime temperature inside his enclosure up by very little, usually only 5-10 degrees. So the CHE you buy only needs to emit a very small amount of heat. I see people with 50 or 75 watt CHE's and they are putting their dragon's nighttime temperature hotter than their daytime Cool Side temperatures are! So try only the lowest CHE wattage available, you really don't need much...BUT AS I'VE ALREADY SAID, 99% OF PEOPLE NEED ABSOLUTELY NO NIGHTTIME HEAT SOURCE AT ALL!
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Karl does look pretty good, overall.
Are you using a mercury vapor bulb for the UVB source, or a compact/coil light for UVB
source?
How late in the day do you feed him? He needs at least a couple of hours before lights
out to digest any meal also. Superworms are controversial, but, when properly fed a
balance with other insects, they shouldn't pose a problem. Fatty liver is caused by a lot
of variables, but inbreeding is causing more issues than anything because the organs are
not functioning optimally when they should be.
How is he doing today?

Tracie
 

KarlTheBeardie

Member
Original Poster
he is better now superworms have not posed any of the problems mentioned above because one time the pet store ran out of them and he happily accepted the crickets also in canada we cant get dubias as they are invasive
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

That's great Karl has improved now! Were you able to get his basking temperatures at a more
even keel?
That's terrific he is eating crickets now, they are perfect for him. How many is he eating at a
time?
Feel free to update us anytime, as well as post new pictures of him for us, too.

Tracie
 

KarlTheBeardie

Member
Original Poster
Drache613":eta66npi said:
Hello,

That's great Karl has improved now! Were you able to get his basking temperatures at a more
even keel?
That's terrific he is eating crickets now, they are perfect for him. How many is he eating at a
time?
Feel free to update us anytime, as well as post new pictures of him for us, too.

Tracie
basking temps are fixed and he doesn't eat crickets all the time just whenever there aren't any supers the nearest petstore with others other then super worms and meal worms and these other green ones that he wont eat is pretty far away and according to the vet who is certified he is healthy. and when we get crickets he can eat over 35 crickets at a time and only once per day but still not everyday only when they are out the certified vet we visited said that super worms were fine for him and we aren't eager to drive around when there are only superworms at almost every petstore
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
I'm glad he's doing well, but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't repeat this one more time to you, regardless of what your reptile vet says, as I know 20 reptile vets that will say the opposite, you cannot know and will not know if feeding him nothing but superworms is causing him liver damage. Fatty Liver Disease develops slowly over time, and is the #1 reason that captive bearded dragons live only an average of 9-10 years instead of 15 years, and it's due to their owners not feeding them a varied diet of healthy, low fat protein. As Tracie mentioned earlier, superworms are fine to feed adult bearded dragons only when they are not the main staple live feeder insect, and they are only fed in small quantities in addition to feeding them a HEALTHY staple feeder, like crickets or even better Phoenix Worms/BSFL/Reptiworms/Nutrigrubs, which you can order online in Canada from www.thewormlady.ca and you can order 1,000 Phoenix Worms/BSFL and have them delivered right to your door in 2 days for a hell of a lot less money than buying 100 superworms at a time in a pet shop.

I know you're only 12 or 13 and really can't do much about this, and you'll do what you want to do anyway, but again, I hate to see beardies developing unnecessary health issues and dying young due to a totally preventable issue like a high-fat diet with no variety, especially when a much healthier alternative can be ordered in bulk and shipped straight to the owner's home for less money than they are paying for the high-fat, non-varied diet.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Latest resources

Latest posts

Latest profile posts

I just set Swordtail's timer for his bath and paused it so I could actually fill his soaking bowl up and he crawled over my phone and canceled the timer 🤣
Mirage came out of brumation on April 26. He was doing great. On May 2 he started acting funny. We just redid his tank, and he keeps going into one of his hides. He just lays there. He shows no intrest in food. HELP!
is tape safe for fixing something in my leopard geckos hide?
Day 3 of brumation. It's a struggle. I really miss my little guy. 😔
Mirage entered brumation yesterday, I'm gonna miss hanging out with my little guy.

Forum statistics

Threads
156,321
Messages
1,260,084
Members
76,178
Latest member
camila
Top Bottom