Newly rescued beardie - have some questions

[leelasmom]

Hey everyone - I posted an introduction already, but I have some health questions about my beardie Leela - she is a rescue, and was NOT well taken care of before.
We got her on Saturday, so it's only been 2 days, but she seems to be doing ok so far.

However, I have some concerns over her eating habits and her lethargy.

First - here is some physical info on Leela:
- Approx. 12-13 inches long
- Very thin limbs and tail; her head is not as thick as it should be
- Frighteningly pale color at first, but that is improving rapidly (yay!)
- Was clearly dehyrated and malnourished
- Age? I am guessing about 5 months, but I hate to go off of length, since I have every reason to believe her prior mistreatment has stunted her growth.

Here is her setup:
- 40 gallon terrarium w/ locking screen top
- 10.0 Repti-glo UVB light
- 8.5 inch ceramic basking lamp with a 100 watt bulb (the lamp is rated for up to 150)
- 2 therms (1 for cool site/1 for hot side) and 1 hydrogometer
- Medium water bowl (she uses it to poop)
- Salad feeding dish
- Large shelter area in the "cool" side of the tank
- Basking area has "tree" for climbing and a lower rock area (NOT a heated rock!)

I'm confident the terrarium setup is good; I read all the care sheets on the site prior to getting it together - plus we had a beardie (though it's been about 5 years since) and I remembered a lot of info.

My main concern is her appetite and diet - I have been offering fresh salad everyday, sprinkled w/ Rep-Cal Herptivite multi-vitamin powder. She only ate about 20-30 crickets on Saturday but since then, she won't take them. On Sunday she actually seemed scared and tried to get away from them; I had a heck of a time removing all of those buggers from the tank after it was quite clear she wasn't interested!

Any ideas on what else I should try for her? I attempted a few crickets a little while ago, and again, she wasn't really interested.

Also, due to her apparent dehydration, I have been making sure to mist her often and I plan on bathing her for 10-15 minutes later this evening. I waited on that, since I did not want to stress her out!

 

[spurlee01]

Hey Leela's mom-
I have a couple of thoughts.
1. Most likely, its relocation stress. Often beardies eat very little the first two weeks or so after being moved.
2. The ReptiGLO 10.0 has been known to cause eye problems, lack of appetite, and lethargy in beardies. A better choice is the ReptiSUN 10.0 which can be purchased cheaply at http://www.petmountain.com if you're in the US.
3. What are the temperatures in the basking spot (right under the bulb), warm side, and cool side? You mentioned two thermometers, are these stick on or digital with a probe. If they are stick-on, you really need to get a digital with a probe (Acurite at Walmart is $12 in the hardware section). Stick-ons don't measure the basking spot and can be off by 20*F.
4. We are having trouble with one of the dragons at the moment being a VERY picky eater. He only wants hornworms. You can try a different variety of worms (phoenix, silk, hornworms, superworms (after she's 16"), and butterworms). We also bought roaches (dubia) and are waiting for those and praying he will eat them! Here's a link to good and bad foods if you want to experiment with her salad in hopes of getting her to eat. http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html
5. If she's only using her waterbowl to poop, it is probably full of bacteria. You may want to take it out and put a papertowel there and hopefully she will poop on the papertowel and you can just lift it up and pitch it. They don't need a waterbowl because most will not use them and they are hydrated through bathing and misting (only mist outside of the tank).
Sara

 

[leelasmom]

Thanks for the response - I suspected that her lack of appetite was probably related to relocation stress.

The water bowl issue is something I'm divided on. So far though, she has only pooped once, and I immediately flushed it, cleaned the bowl out, and put in fresh water.

I want to keep the water bowl in there for now, though, because as I mentioned, there is an issue w/ dehydration. Before I get her used to bathing in the tub, I want her to have something available - I have seen her at the bowl often and at one point she was in it for about 10 minutes. Not pooping - just chilling out. After a while, I can remove that bowl once she is used to regular bathing.

There seems to be different schools of thought on the water bowl issue; I read conflicting things. Some sources say they are important, some say they are not. I'm trying to use my best judgement based on Leela's needs and behaviors.

As far as the UVB bulb - I will take your recommendation. The very knowledgeable salesperson at the store (who has 3 beardies) offered up a selection of several, and that was the one I went with. I remember she said that I may end up using a different one, depending on how Leela does.

We haven't handled her much to avoid undue stress; I read that we should avoid handling unless necessary for about 3-4 days. Sound about right?

Also, I need some ideas on night lighting. Right now, since it's summertime and the temps are higher, we are just going with a blacklight. Any suggestions for something different/better?

Thanks!!!

 

[spurlee01]

I understand about the waterbowl. Sorry, I got the impression she pooped in it a lot. I do leave a waterbowl in my tank atm because I've seen Lilly drink out of it once. It will probably come out soon though because I live in a river valley and it will get too humid this summer with a water bowl I bet.
If your nighttime temperature isn't dropping below 65*F, you don't need any type of heat source. If it does, all you need is a ceramic heat emitter. ANY light at night keeps beardies awake, including red and black light.
I've heard 1-2 weeks of not handling, but it really depends on the dragon. Lilly was eating like a pig from day one, so I immediately started with baths. I didn't handle her just to handle her until 4 or 5 days, though. If your dragon seems stressed then yes, you do want to handle minimally, but I would still give baths. Bath time has become bonding time for us as she likes to cling to my hand for part of my bath and then I talk to her the rest of the time so she stays calm. She's at the point where I can blowdry my hair while bathing her (I've had her 1.5 weks) and she doesn't freak out; as long as she can see me and hear me, she's fine.
As for UVB, it is typically recommended to just turn off the UVB until you get a better one. They are okay for 1-2 weeks without UVB. Especially if money is tight I highly recommend that sight. I bought just about everything from there and spent 1/2 of what I would have at pet stores.
Before you order though, are you using calcium as well as vitamins or just vitamins? Calcium should be dusted on food 2-3 times per week and vitamins once per week. If you get the reptisun 10.0 I would use this calcium http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-supplements/105551/rep-cal-ultrafine-powder-calcium-with-vitamin-d3.html
Hope this helps,
Sara

 

[leelasmom]

ANY light at night keeps beardies awake, including red and black light.

As for UVB, it is typically recommended to just turn off the UVB until you get a better one. They are okay for 1-2 weeks without UVB. Especially if money is tight I highly recommend that sight. I bought just about everything from there and spent 1/2 of what I would have at pet stores.
Before you order though, are you using calcium as well as vitamins or just vitamins? Calcium should be dusted on food 2-3 times per week and vitamins once per week. If you get the reptisun 10.0 I would use this calcium http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-supplements/105551/rep-cal-ultrafine-powder-calcium-with-vitamin-d3.html
Hope this helps,
Sara

Thanks!
It's funny about the blacklight - I noticed that it doesn't seem to keep her awake at all, really. But if it's not necessary, than I can just stop using it. Saves me the aggravation of switching out the bulbs at night!

I double checked the ingredient listings on the Herptivite...calcium is in it. I just sprinkle the salad w/ it lightly and dust the crickets. Again, she is not really eating much at all anyway...made a big mess of her salad today without actually eating much of it! :lol:

The thing to keep in mind here is that she never had a proper set up. No uvb/basking lights, filthy 10 gallon tank, bad nutrition, etc...if I was to post a pic of the setup we found her in, you'd understand - and be very angry like I was! :x

So I think over the next week or so, she is going to be adjusting to everything - it's all brand new to her, essentially. When we gave her crickets on Saturday, she looked genuinely confused as to what she should even do!

And I forgot to address the thermometer issue - they aren't the crappy stick on kind - they are gauges which are very easy to read. But...I am considering going digital in the future.

 

[leelasmom]

Here is what she looked like on Saturday - you can see malnourishment and dehydration.

 

[spurlee01]

The herptivite does have some calcium, but they actually need calcium 5x a week and vitamins 2x a week. I posted a link above to the calcium I use. Since she hasn't been cared for in the past, it is probably very important to get her enough calcium now (but not too much). I only dust the first 10 crickets Lilly eats every day because they don't need a TON of the supplements. Some people dust one full feeding, but no more than that. I know the thermometers you have, and people have found them to be off by 20*F. They also do not measure the basking spot temperature. As for the salad, just keep offering. Some days my 6 month old loves her salad, others I don't know that she eats any.
Sara

 

[MALIBUSMOM]

Malibu has her bath in a plastic kitty litter pan.I fill it maybe 1/2 way w/ luke warm...like a babies bath water &
soak her dailey.she swims.drinks then takes her poo & crawls out onto the towel when shes done pooing.I usually just carry it to the coffee table & she watches tv while she baths!

 

[leelasmom]

The herptivite does have some calcium, but they actually need calcium 5x a week and vitamins 2x a week. I posted a link above to the calcium I use. Since she hasn't been cared for in the past, it is probably very important to get her enough calcium now (but not too much).
... I know the thermometers you have, and people have found them to be off by 20*F. They also do not measure the basking spot temperature. As for the salad, just keep offering. Some days my 6 month old loves her salad, others I don't know that she eats any.
Sara

:notworthy: You've convinced me - I'm going digital! Aaaand...getting a calcium supplement.

Check her out now - it's only been 3 days but her color is amazing! Drastic improvement.

(BTW - She is resting on her old "shelter" - I cleaned/disinfected it & kept it in there for familiarity - can you believe that was ALL she had in the crappy old tank? Her new shelter is awesome but she hasn't shown interest yet)

 

[spurlee01]

That is really the same dragon only 3 days later :shock: ?! Wow what a difference you have made! I definitely think keeping the old shelter with her is a great idea. Beardies do get attached to "stuff". A lot have favorite blankets they don't want to get rid of. I am so glad that you got her when you did; hopefully she will continue to make great improvements. I never realized how important temps were until I got on here and heard about what a difference even a few degrees can make. You are absolutely right to get a digital thermometer. When you get it, lay the probe right on the rock or log that she uses to bask and take the temperature there. Let it sit for 45 minutes. And the good new about calcium- it doesn't stink like the vitamins do!! Don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions.
Sara

 

[leelasmom]

Malibu has her bath in a plastic kitty litter pan.I fill it maybe 1/2 way w/ luke warm...like a babies bath water &
soak her dailey.she swims.drinks then takes her poo & crawls out onto the towel when shes done pooing.I usually just carry it to the coffee table & she watches tv while she baths!

Aww that's so cute! I can't wait until Leela is more social like that. We bathed her last night and she just hung out in the water, looking confused. :?
When she decided it was time to get out (we finally got her in the towel after some chasing around) the beard came out to let us know she wasn't very happy with us! But... she was very active afterwards once back in her home - I was thrilled to see her so vivacious.

 

[protiemama]

Bogie loved to swim in the big tub(once he was big) He liked to climb on his rock and jump off and swim around then climb up and jump off again. Give her time, bath time can be the best time of the day.

Have you tried putting her in a seperate container for feeding? I used to put Bogie in a 10 gal aquarium and then drop in a few crix at a time. That way she won't feel so overwhelmed by the nasty little buggs invading her home.
Just some things to try. Good luck with your new little one.

Sandy H

 

[leelasmom]

Have you tried putting her in a seperate container for feeding? I used to put Bogie in a 10 gal aquarium and then drop in a few crix at a time. That way she won't feel so overwhelmed by the nasty little buggs invading her home.
Just some things to try. Good luck with your new little one.

Sandy H

Thanks for the idea - I think we will try that soon. They didn't seem to bother her on Saturday (her first day w/us) but Sunday and yesterday, she didn't want anything to do with them.

So as far as bathing goes - how often do any of you give them baths? I have seen ranges of once a day to 2 or 3 times a week....

 

[leelasmom]

Age? I am guessing about 5 months, but I hate to go off of length, since I have every reason to believe her prior mistreatment has stunted her growth.

:evil: I JUST found out from my dad (who rescued her from the dummy that previously had her) that Leela is more than 1 YEAR OLD!!! She is possibly up to 18 months old. It is almost unbelievable that she lived this long. :evil:

Considering that I initially thought she was about 5-6 months old, based off of size/length, I have new concerns over her long term growth.

So does anyone have experience with undergrown/mistreated beardies? Anything we should do above and beyond providing proper care? I don't know if she will be able to "catch up" to the size she should be...

 

[spurlee01]

I bathe Lilly every other day. Some people do it every day (especially if their dragon is trained to "go" in the bath) while others think it only needs to be done once a week. As for her growth, I really don't know. They don't grow much after 18 months usually. You might keep her on a juvenile diet: 80% protein and 20% veggies for a little longer, but I may be wrong.
Sara