Newbie question

[KristineM]

I'd keep the UVB in the viv. Lets get the temps and hydration straight first. You're heading in the right direction. Keep us posted!!

 

[diamc]

Hi, welcome to the forum. Congratulations on your new little one, he's adorable. What is his length from tip of nose to end of tail? He sure looks small in that sized tank and it sounds like he is still trying to adjust.

You have been given some GREAT info. I have to agree with the others about the UVB bothering his eyes. Could you do me a favor and double check the side of that bulb to make sure it is indeed a Repti-Sun and not a Repti-GLO bulb. Any idea what UVB they were using in the pet store? From what you've explained, it sounds like his eyes are irritated from the UVB and they need time to heal. It would be a good idea to shut off the UVB for at least 2 days to see if you notice any difference in him and it won't do him any harm at all. What's the closest he can get to the UVB anywhere in his tank? Is there any way you can slide the UVB closer to the basking bulb?

Correct temps are a must and you're not getting accurate readings right now, I suspect the temps are much higher than the readings you're getting right now. The round gauge thermometers can be off as much as 20 degrees and even more. Here's an article that shows how different the gauge readings can be compared to a digital with a long wire & probe end: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=167279 The higher the bulb wattage, the larger difference in the readings.

To help him feel more secure in the bath, you could put a small lock or even one of his rocks in there so he has something to lean on. They also like to hold on our fingers while they're soaking. Using unflavored Pedialyte in their bath water also helps to hydrate them quicker. You could even put some diluted Pedialyte on his nose for him to lick off.

Some beardies never take to being fed in a separate bin and will only eat in their tanks. To help slow the crickets down so they aren't overwhelming to him with all of their jumping, you could put 1/2 dozen in a ziploc bag & place in the frig for a minute or so, it will also make catching them easier for him.

I'm gonna send this now. Will write more later.

 

[malykine]

Thank you guys so much for convincing me to get a temp gun. It was fairly expensive but worth it. Basking spot was under temp. I boosted it up a little closer and he seems to be enjoying basking a bit more. Ive had the UVB off since I posted earlier. Gave him another soak and he seemed against it but I held his front paws and he was fine. Now basking temp is about 102 at the highest though. Running a 100W bulb. Is there any reason I seem to be losing so much heat? And is there any way to increase heat without just pushing the rocks up closer to the bulb?

Hes been undulating his throat as though swallowing now while basking. He opened his mouth just a minute ago which I know is a good sign, it means hes getting adequate heat, right?

There is one thing I just witnessed that worried me though. His eyes just puffed up to like twice their normal size, he tried to blink once or twice, and then they returned to normal size. Theyre closed while hes basking otherwise. This... Its a sign of shedding right? Should I be worried? It was seriously only for about... a second and a half, maybe two seconds and then they returned to normal...

 

[KristineM]

Are you being sure to take the temp 2 inches away from the area you want a reading? That's most accurate. You can look into many wattages of household bulbs for basking. I'm using a 60 watt household bulb in a large dome which works fine in his 40g breeder.

Sounds like he's eye bulging which can be a sign of shedding. So glad you ran out for the temp gun.

I have to turn my UVB off randomly...my guy starts staring at it and really that's all it takes. That's why it is suggested to have both basking and UVB so close together. I'd still give him a break for a couple days as diamc mentioned

Good work!!

 

[malykine]

For the specific IR Thermo I'm using it says 8" from the target is best. I just re-measured and I'm getting 108º right underneath him. He keeps popping his mouth open on occasion while basking, so it seems like this is a good heat for him.

Hi, welcome to the forum. Congratulations on your new little one, he's adorable. What is his length from tip of nose to end of tail? He sure looks small in that sized tank and it sounds like he is still trying to adjust.

Haha, thank you. I just measured him while feeding him and from snout to the tip of his tail, he's 6" pretty much on the dot.

Could you do me a favor and double check the side of that bulb to make sure it is indeed a Repti-Sun and not a Repti-GLO bulb.

Yep. I've double and triple-checked. I made sure to get Reptisun while shopping online because I read reviews for each different brand of UVB bulb, and Reptisun were pretty unanimously praised.

Any idea what UVB they were using in the pet store?

Absolutely no idea.

From what you've explained, it sounds like his eyes are irritated from the UVB and they need time to heal. It would be a good idea to shut off the UVB for at least 2 days to see if you notice any difference in him and it won't do him any harm at all.

Alrighty. It's been off for most of today, since I read the earlier posts and messages. I'm keeping it off tomorrow and maybe Sunday as well, depending. I think I've noticed that he's got both eyes open more often now, or at least that they're open wider than before. But that may just be confirmation bias on my part.

What's the closest he can get to the UVB anywhere in his tank? Is there any way you can slide the UVB closer to the basking bulb?

10"+ from anywhere he could be, with the exception of the vine. He goes to sleep on the vine every night amidst the leaves and that's about... 8" at the closest. Where he sleeps within the vine is usually about 10" again. I can move the UVB to the opposite side of the tank, which is directly under the basking bulb. That's going to put it much closer to his basking spots, however. Within range of his normal basking spots it'll be anywhere from 3" at the highest to 10" on top of the rocks, from the UVB.

Correct temps are a must and you're not getting accurate readings right now, I suspect the temps are much higher than the readings you're getting right now. The round gauge thermometers can be off as much as 20 degrees and even more. Here's an article that shows how different the gauge readings can be compared to a digital with a long wire & probe end: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=167279 The higher the bulb wattage, the larger difference in the readings.

You were absolutely right, and thank you very much =]
As I said above, it's been too cool on his basking spot, and with the help of the new IR thermometer, I was able to adjust that. It's now 108º at the hottest.

m feel more secure in the bath, you could put a small lock or even one of his rocks in there so he has something to lean on. They also like to hold on our fingers while they're soaking.

Mm hm. I was letting him hold onto my index finger with his front paws while he was soaking earlier and he seemed to calm down. Even if it was just one paw on my finger and he wasn't leaning on it.

Some beardies never take to being fed in a separate bin and will only eat in their tanks.

He liked it enough on the first night. He ate 10 crickets in there, like a ravenous little dragon. The second night he was a little less pleased with it, and the third he was scrambling to get out. I store my crickets in the fridge for about 10 minutes before serving them, but I'm still worried that any he doesn't eat are just going to... start bouncing around the terrarium. I don't want them to live in there as well as him, and for a while there were crickets hiding under his basking rock, impossible to hunt.

Anyway, thank you for all your help. He definitely seems healthier today after a couple good soaks, and a really good bask. I think part of the problem was just that he wasn't digesting his food, or at least not as well as he should've been, with the basking temps too low. He seemed eager to eat the baby-mix half an hour ago when I fed it to him, so that's a good sign.

I'm still just worried about the black lids and him frequently closing his eyes, or half-closing them. I'm hoping the UVB being off for a couple days will solve that.

 

[diamc]

Good that you're using a temp gun. Even though the instructions say to hold it 8" away, that isn't the distance recommended for a beardies tank. I started this thread about temp guns this afternoon, thought you might want to read it: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=195771

I'm happy to hear that he liked hanging onto your fingers while he was in the bath, so cute when they do that.

Please let us know how he's doing tomorrow. If you could pick up the turtle eye drops, it would help his eyes heal a little faster. Good luck.

 

[malykine]

Unfortunately PetCo doesn't have eyedrops. It seems like my local one doesn't carry them at all. That's a shame because I was looking forward to using them for him and getting this eye thing more definitely sorted out.

Anyway, I came home from work this afternoon [my mom soaked him at about noon] to find him sitting on his basking rock, eyes closed but head up. He defecated, same as yesterday: runny, with a little splat of urates. He has a tendency to look around at stuff with his eyes shut or mostly shut. So he'll turn his head to be looking directly at you with a mostly closed eye. This isn't all the time, about half the time he looks around with open eyes, but I thought it'd be worth noting. I tried feeding him fresh crickets but he wasn't having any of that, neither in the feeding bin nor the terrarium. Even after I removed the legs from one, he just watched it wriggle around instead of eating it. So I fed him some more of the Chicken/Water/Vitamin/Calcium mixture. I'll have to pick up unflavored Pedialyte and Squash baby food at the store later.

Speaking of which, what benefit does the Squash have that should be added to the chicken?

He's currently been soaking for a second time, 14 minutes now, and occasionally scampers to try and get out. But he's in my sink which is concave and so just slides whenever he tries. I held his paws for a minute while he tried to scamper against the most upright wall of the sink, and he excreted while doing so, for the second time today. The wastes were more solid under water, forming a definite separate urate and brown.

Lids are still dark, his eyes still regularly close, sometimes just one sometimes both, and he still doesn't want to eat live food.

[E] After ~18 minutes in the water, he really didn't wanna stick around, so I temporarily put him on my computer while I finished typing out this post. He danced against the screen. I moved him into a bin while I finished sterilizing his basking rock again with boiling water, tested the temp again [110º] and then put him back in the terrarium on his newly cleaned basking rock.

Initially he was giving me his best Dirty Harry impression and I was worried. I don't know if you can see with the light from the basking lamp, but he's leaning on his right wrist [our left], rather than having his claw extended.

Then he perked up, but his eyes inflated again. They stayed like this for about... ten seconds maybe? I could see that he was trying to blink or... something.

Aaand then he seemed better.

Except as you can see via his reflection, the eye facing me was open, the eye facing away was not.

 

[KristineM]

If he's going to start shedding his eyes will bulge especially after a bath No matter what the box SAYS use the 2 inch rule for temps please. Refer to diamc's post. You can try the moistened chamomile tea bags warmed a bit and placed on the eyes to sooth them since you can't find the turtle eyes drops.

I'd still suggest keeping the UVB off for a bit.

The squash is good for a veggie added to the protein and can help move stuff along. Sounds like you're doing well. Just go by that 2 inch rule for correct temps. He sounds hydrated to me and more focus should be on the eyes and eating. It's not uncommon for a baby to open one and close the other at times. Both being closed probably means irritated and discomfort.

I'm sure someone will chime in to correct me or add more info. Sounds like you're moving in the right direction

 

[diamc]

Sounds like he is doing a little better than yesterday. Do you see any loosened skin on his eyes or under them? Sometimes the skin around the eyes will take on a slightly bluish color before it starts lifting.

Since you can't find the Turtle eye drops, you could use the chamomile tea bags as Kristine explained or you could pick up Saline Eye Wash that humans use to flush foreign bodies out of their eyes. You should be able to find that in the "eye" section of your drug store BUT make sure it's not intended for contact lenses as those have extra chemicals added.

Squash is very good for them, high in calcium and also as Kristine said, it will help move things along. On this list, it is in green print which means it is a daily staple food: http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

Please double ck the basking temp with the gun held only 2" from the basking spot, I suspect the temp is closer to 115 to 120 which would be too high.

 

[malykine]

...Huh. So that's what those blue bits are. I just figured they were some natural color mutation.

I've got saline but it's for my contacts, so not gonna help. How should I proceed with the camomile bag? Steep some tea, wait for the bag to cool to about the same temperature as the water I would bathe him in and then... Plop it on his head? Or squeeze the tea-infused water into his eyes?

All the temp readings in my last post were from 2" away. It reads 110° at the hottest, and on his main basking rock 102° at the lowest.

 

[KristineM]

Heat the tea bags in water then hold them to your cheak. Should feel warm NOT hot. Squeeze them out and THEN put them over his eyes sounds like you're doing wonderful!! That eye bulge is probably him stretching the skin getting ready to shed.

Still....if his eyes are causing him discomfort it can only help.

Good work!

 

[malykine]

He's extremely lethargic today. Slept in till 12:30 and then I saw him moving to sleep in a different position and decided to take the opportunity to rouse him. Got him to soak and after a minute he just gave up and sat there with his eyes closed in the water.

I did my best to get some pictures of him with his eyes closed so you all know what his eyelids look like at this point, but from a phone camera it's still not the best quality.

Now he's lying down on my laptop because it's cleaning day and I'm waiting for his substrate and rocks to dry. He's been soaked and I tried to give him the chamomile, but his eyes have been closed all day so it was difficult. I put the bag up to each eye, I even dripped a little bit on each but it just ran over the eye since they're both closed. As I said, he's currently lying down on my laptop, head down.

-sigh- It's still all very worrisome. I feel as though I've made no progress. Sometimes he's basking and sitting with his head up, other times he's lying down and refuses to open his eyes. He still doesn't eat crickets and I tried seeing if he was interested in a freshly shed mealworm just to see if he'd eat anything but he didn't want that either.

So now I'm going to feed him more of the baby-food formula and hopefully the rocks will at least be dry by then so he can bask and digest.

 

[malykine]

Again, sorry to double-post.
He seems to have this pattern though. He sleeps in in the morning, doesn't wanna wake, soaks, lies down with his head down, eats, basks, poops, then basks a bit more and has his head high.

I'm trying to figure out the pattern, because it terrifies me that he looks like he's going to die every morning and never wants to wake up.

 

[diamc]

Poor thing, his eyes must really be bothering him. I would try to find the Saline Eye Wash and try to get some of that in his eyes. The UVB light is still off, right? In the pic with his left eye open, it looks like the skin on the upper lid is sticking out, or, is it just the picture?

Did he eat or drink much today?

 

[malykine]

I'll pick up some saline later at the store. The UVB's been off since Friday, so it's just been the basking bulb. The basking bulb is, remember, 100W. I wonder if it's the rest of the lighting in my basement? They're a set of 8 recessed 60W bulbs spaced evenly apart throughout my ceiling. I guess you could say his top lids are extruding a little bit, but I don't think it's much more than before, if at all.

I fed him about one and a half to two eyedroppers of the food mixture before. He has a tendency to not want to eat more than once per day, so second feeding is usually only about one eyedropper's worth before he decides to stop licking it up off his snout. I haven't been giving him water alone in an eyedropper, since he soaks 2-3 times and there's water in the babyfood to make it viscous enough for the dropper.