New dragon - is it healthy?

[Shalalala]

Hello!

Today I took over a bearded dragon from someone that I suspect might not have treated it optimally. This is my first reptile (reptiles just became legal here) so I'm posting here (and on the bearded dragon subreddit) to make sure I provide the best possible conditions and in case there's any health issues you guys can spot that I've missed!

I've read through all I can find online and the Bearded Dragon Care Guide by Andrew Isdaner. If there's anything else you'd recommend reading please let me know!

First off, the guy who dropped him off told me it's a 2 year old male, I've measured him to be 46 cm long (~18 inches), weighing in at 360 grams. Is this alright?

Here's an album with pictures of him.

It seems he has:
- Sunken fat pads (dehydration? malnourishment?)
- Several missing claws
- One ingrown claw?

He had a bowl with red peppers when he arrived and he ate from it after we had put his tank in place so he seems to be eating. We'll be getting some insects and supplements for him tomorrow.

He came with a 200 liter (53 gallon) tank, 100x40x50 cm (39x16x20 inches). Is this big enough?

Pictures of the tank here.

The previous owner told the guy that delivered it that he had installed UV-lighting but the delivery guy wasn't so sure. The whole think reeks and there's plenty of dirty spots everywhere. We'll be cleaning the entire thing (will 20 % bleach work here or is it too strong?) as well as getting slate-style ceramic tiles for flooring, new UVB bulbs, a basking light, hiding spot, some decoration and a ceramic heater if necessary. From looking around online most local stores only sell exo-terra stuff, how are their products?

As there's glass on all sides there's no way to install ventilation in the sides, I've heard mixed reports about top ventilation, some say it's good and you need a screen cover to prevent humidity buildup and some say it releases too much heat. Maybe have ventilation holes on one side (the one without the basking light) to create some airflow and a cooler side? Suggestions?

Attached some of the pictures below for those unable to click on the links:

 

[Chanza]

He looks like he has suffered from a lack of UVB and/or calcium. The missing claws are probably from unproper sheds that cut off the circulation and eventually made the claws fall off. He could use some good UVB, some calcium and maybe a bath and some water droplets to the mouth. How is he doing eating wise?

Also the tank is definetly big enough, does he have a basking bulb in there?

He looks like he could use some fattening up to, consider getting him some silkworms. They're full of calcium and are realtively soft, so they'll be easy for him to eat.

 

[Shalalala]

Thanks for the reply Chanza!

He's only been here for about 6 hours, we've been trying to leave him alone for the most part. We've seen him eat once from the veggiebowl so he's eating. Will he grow new claws or are they gone forever? Do you think it is causing him any pain?

There's not basking bulb, I'll be getting one tomorrow along with new UVB lighting, new substrate, hiding spot, supplements etc.

I'll look into getting some silk worms as well!

 

[Chanza]

Sounds good. I'm sure he is very glad to be put in new, and better hands! The claws should cause him no pain. It is unlikely they will grow back. The only way it may affected him is when it comes to clinging onto to surfaces, so just make sure your extra careful when you hold him. Hope this helped and best of luck!

 

[EllenD]

Ahhh, the poor guy...He definitely is suffering from MBD, or Metabolic Bone Disease, which is due to a lack of calcium being absorbed and his bone density suffering. This is why he has an underbite. This usually happens due to a lack of proper UVB light, which is very important and very specific as far as what UVB lights are strong enough for bearded dragons. Without proper UVB they cannot make vitamin D3 and cannot absorb their Calcium. The long tube light overhead looks like a tube UVB light, which is the ONLY TYPE OF UVB LIGHT YOU WANT, no coil or compact UVB bulbs for beardies. But they do need to be replaced every 6 months, so my guess would be that if he's 2 years old, he never had his UVB tube replaced and has had none for close to a year and a half.

The Reptisun 10.0 UVB tubes are the best you can get in the US, if you're elsewhere in the world like Australia or the UK, or Canada, the Arcadia 12% tubes are fantastic. As far as which Reptisun, you want a Reptisun 10.0 T5 High-Output UVB tube, and need to make sure that the long flourescent tube fixture on top of the tank is rated for a T5 tube instead of the weaker T8 tube. He needs the stronger Reptisun 10.0 T5 or 12% Arcadia...These higher output T5 tubes last for 8 months to a year, then need replaced.

All he needs for a basking bulb is a bright white halogen flood bulb like you buy at the hardware store, no specialty reptile basking bulbs necessary, and ABSOLUTELY NO COLORED BULBS AT ALL, NO BLUE, RED, INFRARED, GREEN, YELLOW, NO COLORED BULBS!!! Only bright white, and the wattage is based on the enclosure size, I'd start with 100 watts. Then you'll need a good thermometer that can measure the temperature of the basking spot, so the best are the digital thermometers that have a probe you can place on the basking spot, let sit for 20-30 minutes, then read, then move the probe to the floor of the Hot Side, let it sit for 20-30 minutes, then read, then move the probe to the floor of the Cool Side, let it sit for 20-30 minutes, then read the temp.

Basking Spot: between 98-103 degrees Fahrenheit

Hot Side: between 88-93 degrees Fahrenheit

Cool Spot: between 75-80 degrees Fahrenheit maximum

They see in color, so no lights on at nighttime at all, it disrupts their sleep, and they also like it to get cool at nighttime, just like us, so as long as your house stays at 65 degrees or above, you need no nighttime heat source at all, most people don't. A Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE) is what you want for the nighttime, but again it's usually unnecessary, they don't sleep well if their nighttime temps are warm. Most homes are above 65 degrees at night, and his enclosure is warmer by default.

All you need for ventilation and to keep the heat in is a mesh lid. It keeps the heat in (5 sides are glass, more than enough) and ventilation is fine, as is humidity, which is not a big deal to begin with. No need for extra ventilation holes or anything like that. And remember, UVB light does not penetrate glass at all, none. If you buy the Reptisun 10.0 T5 High-Output UVB tube or the Arcadia 12% UVB tube you can set them on top of a mesh lid (not glass), they are strong enough to penetrate the mesh at around 11" away from his basking spot. However, if you choose a weaker percentage UVB tube, like the Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube, it must be mounted under the mesh lid at 8" away from his basking spot, as a lot of the UVB is blocked by the mesh, and a T8 is too weak.

He definitely is skinny, his sunken fat pads are a sign of malnutrition and emaciation, his body is using up his fat stores. I doubt he's been fed well for a while. His length is good, but he needs to put some weight on. At 2 years old he normally would be eating mostly greens and veggies with live feeder insects two or three times a week, but since he's malnourished and underweight, I'd be feeding him high-quality feeder insects at least 3-4, maybe more times a week, and fresh greens and veggies daily. He needs calcium w/D3 powder (a liquid Calcium would be better to treat the MBD with) and a good multivitamin powder to dust his insects in and sprinkle on his greens and veggies. Collard greens, mustard greens, turnip greens, Dandelion greens, escarole, arugula (rocket), bok choy are all great fresh greens. No kale or spinach, they contain too many oxalates that bind to Calcium, and no lettuce at all of any kind, either nothing but water with no nutrition, or too many oxalates.

He needs a good long warm bath, he's quite dirty. His claws are either missing from other bearded dragons nipping, or as already mentioned retained shed cutting off circulation. That's not a huge deal. He actually doesn't look nearly as bad as a lot do, we have one here from yesterday that made us all cry he was so emaciated and neglected...He's a pretty leatherback that just needs proper UVB, proper temperatures, a good shed (inadequate lighting and lack of gaining weight will hault shedding, I don't think he's shed in a long time), and a proper diet with good insect protein, calcium, and good greens to put weight on and get his bone density back up. He'll be fine, thank you so much for rescuing him!

 

[kingofnobbys]

He's not in great shape , and needs building up and good levels of UVB, can't say if he's suffered / suffering MBD , to know that for sure in his condition requires a reptile vet's assessment (and likely xrays to check bone density and bloods to determine if he's got depleted blood calcium levels).

He can recover and have a long and healthy and happy life in the right hands after a period of rebilitating.

I'd ditch the substrate , looks like gravelly sand of some kind , this stuff is a definite impaction risk.

He needs a larger viv , I recommend a timber (plywood) viv that's 4ft L x 2ft W x 2ft T, with front sliding glass doors and cabinet vents in each end (high at the warm end, low at the cool end).
I am not a fan of mesh lids on viv (fish tanks with mesh lids might be cheap set up but it's a hopeless design.
Until you can build your own forever home or buy or arrange to have one made , I recommend getting a 3/4in plywood lid with holes for some cabinet vents , this will give a good solid platform from which to hang his basking light and UVB globe.

I also recommend replacing the existing tube with a 12% UVB tube (Arcadia brand) and investing in a slip on reflector to suit the tube (this will focus the UVA & UVB where you need it to be , and will effectively double the UVA and UVB at his basking spot , ideally I'd be arranging a UV basking spot where he can get about 190 microW UVB / sqcm) .

Here is my cheatsheet , contains lots of helpful tips and a good guide on setting up the thermal gradient and the UVB gradient. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=234738&p=1806050#p1806050

I recommend you swap over from calcium dust (on his veg/salads and insects) to giving him daily oral doses of liquid calcium by syringe because he likely needs his calcium levels build up and dusting is very hit and miss.
I recommend a buying a product such as CalciVet , this is dosed daily according to the bodymass of the lizard. http://www.vetnpetdirect.com.au/vetafarm_calcivet_liquid_calcium_supplement
If you decide to give liquid calcium , give it via the side of his mouth and in small amounts , this reduces the risk of his accidentially aspirating some.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Hello!

Today I took over a bearded dragon from someone that I suspect might not have treated it optimally. This is my first reptile (reptiles just became legal here) so I'm posting here (and on the bearded dragon subreddit) to make sure I provide the best possible conditions and in case there's any health issues you guys can spot that I've missed!

>>> where is "here" ? curious (just your country).

I've read through all I can find online and the Bearded Dragon Care Guide by Andrew Isdaner. If there's anything else you'd recommend reading please let me know!

First off, the guy who dropped him off told me it's a 2 year old male, I've measured him to be 46 cm long (~18 inches), weighing in at 360 grams. Is this alright?

Here's an album with pictures of him.

It seems he has:
- Sunken fat pads (dehydration? malnourishment?) <<< malnourished.
- Several missing claws <<< this happens when other beardies bite them
- One ingrown claw? <<< curled back in on itself ? needs twimming

He had a bowl with red peppers when he arrived and he ate from it after we had put his tank in place so he seems to be eating. We'll be getting some insects and supplements for him tomorrow.

He came with a 200 liter (53 gallon) tank, 100x40x50 cm (39x16x20 inches). Is this big enough?
<<< Will do for now , best size is 120x600x600 cm see my cheatsheet.

Pictures of the tank here.

The previous owner told the guy that delivered it that he had installed UV-lighting but the delivery guy wasn't so sure. The whole think reeks and there's plenty of dirty spots everywhere. We'll be cleaning the entire thing (will 20 % bleach work here or is it too strong?)
<<< F10SC made up 1:125 in water sprayed on all hard surfaces and allowed to stand/airdry for 30 minutes is much more effective (will kill ALL germs and spores) and safe to use
see http://f10products.com/index.php?id=3


as well as getting slate-style ceramic tiles for flooring, new UVB bulbs, a basking light, hiding spot, some decoration and a ceramic heater if necessary. From looking around online most local stores only sell exo-terra stuff, how are their products?
Exo Terra , Zoo Med and Arcadia are the best products esp wrt to UV lighting.

As there's glass on all sides there's no way to install ventilation in the sides, I've heard mixed reports about top ventilation, some say it's good and you need a screen cover to prevent humidity buildup and some say it releases too much heat. Maybe have ventilation holes on one side (the one without the basking light) to create some airflow and a cooler side? Suggestions?
See my cheatsheet

Attached some of the pictures below for those unable to click on the links:

 

[Shalalala]

Hey guys! Thanks for the great replies!

Here's a follow up (with the questions in bold so you don't have to read the entire post if you want to help ).

After a round of calling around to all local stores we went to the one that had the most supplies.. and it wasnt much. Pretty much the only company they stock is exo terra and they didn't have much at that. We ended up getting:
- Basking lamp with a 100 W exo terra intense basking light spot
- ReptiGlo 10.0 desert terrarium lamp, it's not near as good as the reptisun or arcadia but it's the only one they had, will try to get one of those as well but so far the ones that ship here has a shipping cost 2-3 times the price of the tube, does anyone know any stores that ship cheaply in Europe?
- Ceramic slate tiles for flooring, threw away the sand as it was moist and filled with droppings
- 50 crickets, only insect they had except mealworms, will order dubia roaches asap
- Calcium with D3, only form of calcium available, they didnt have multivitamins so I'll order that online
- Feedings tongs
- Lots of different good veggies from the nutrition chart

When we got back we cleaned out the tank with a 5 % bleach solution, it worked "okay", it's a lot cleaner but not perfect and it still smells a bit. Will try out the F10SC you suggest Kingofnobbys! If I can find any local stores that sell it.

Gave him some dusted crickets today, and he seemed to really enjoy them. I've read bearded dragons should be fed 50 to 60 insects 3-4 times a week, is that 50-60 per week or per feeding? Since he was so malnourished we didn't dare give him too many to begin with in case he would get sick/impacted so we gave him 15 this feeding. He has fresh vegetables accessible in his viv during the day.

I've borrowed a infrared thermal measuring gun, and I think the vivarium is a bit hot with all the installed lights. With a measuring gun do you measure the temperature in the basking spot exactly where he would lie or do you take the ambient temperature from the surroundings? We were done with everything very late so we just got readings from about an hour before it was bedtime for the dragon. Will do more measuring tomorrow and see if I can adjust it. Aiming for 40*C in the basking spot, 32*C in the warm side and around 28*C in the cool spot.

When we entered the room to turn off the lights and remove the veggies he was sitting there with his eyes closed, is this because he was sleepy or could the lights be too bright?


Here's some pictures of the current state of the vivarium, it's a bit sparse but we'll be ordering a hide, some decorations etc online. We've kept the log out for now so he won't be able to reach the basking lamb (this is the only possible way we found to mount it at the moment). Aiming to make a custom wooden top on monday (I have access to a full wooden workshop with laser cutters and CNC mills) with proper vents and spot for the basking light up top so it doesn't have to be inside, I think it's a bit too close to the basking spot as is, also afraid that he might be clever enough to get to it. So far he only seems to be sitting still and haven't moved much. I'll be looking to make a full custom forever home over the next month or so that's 120x60x60cm (4x2x2 feet) with proper side vents and everything.

I also think he's looking a bit better than yesterday already. Still a long way to go yet though.

Kingofnobbys, the possibly ingrown claw I mentioned looks like this, it might just be a long toe crooked on the end?

 

[Shalalala]

We got poop, people!

Looks like it's a bit runny, but that's only natural from relocation stress as far as I know.

Anything else you guys can discern from the coloring?

We fed him again today, he didn't want more after 10 crickets, I think he got a bit spooked after I dropped one. He's not touching his veggies either. We'll keep an eye on him.

Other than that, we're having some temperature issues, it seems to be a bit hot. We've opened up the top and moved the basking lamp all the way out of the tank. But right now it's very hot where we live (whole apartment is around 30*C atm) so the tank is roughly around 30-32 degrees all over, 40-45 in the basking spot. Hopefully it'll go a bit down now that we've opened the top.

 

[ChristinaMike]

The only thing I would add is maybe a hide of some sort that he can get to if it does get too hot or if he wants a break from the rays I am not an expert by any means lol

 

[Shalalala]

ChristinaMike, we're looking online for something but we're a bit unsure about the size. He's 46 cm atm, will a 32x29x12cm one be adequate? It's the biggest we've found. Might try to make our own.

 

[ChristinaMike]

There are some awesome DIY hides on this site... mine is still little so I don't have to worry about that for a while lol Maybe peruse the enclosures threads or the big one of Viv pics and it can give you ideas... sadly every time I look at it I just want to buy more stuff lol I think my husband wants to slap me ??