New beardy acting depressed

[tancients]

It's probably all related to relocation stress, but I can't help but worry since he's my first one, and is acting quite a bit differently than the one my bf got the same day.

Mine didn't eat or move anywhere the first day. He crawled a bit up the tree trunk before 'bed' and was still there (although his arms/legs were tucked in) in the morning before I departed for work. My bf managed to get him to eat 4 crickets that were dusted with calcium dust a few hours afterwards at least. For the rest of the day he's done very little movement at all, but seems to get more lively when held for a while.

I almost suspect that he was awake all night the first night, which might explain some of the sluggish-ness right now. I gave him proper basking temperatures now (Had to change the wattage), and set him there after I got home today, but after a few minutes he sort of climbed off it backwards and has been sitting still at the back of the cage just a little bit of distance from where I set him. That's generally the extent of any movement he has done except for a rare occasion or two where he actually went across the cage once...

He did defecate today at some point at least, there is some light yellow on the white urate part, is a little bit just a precautionary sign or could he have been malnourished/improperly fed before I got him? The keeper told me that he liked mealworms, but I was of the understanding that those needed to be fed a bit less often.

Compared to my bf's bearded, mine is much much smaller, and much less active. He closes his eyes often, so hopefully he'll sleep some tonight, but I can't help but worry anyway...should I keep picking him up each day for a bit? Give him a bath in the next day or two even if he's still being sluggish?

I'm kind of glad he defecated, since I was worried he might be constipated.

Offer me thoughts and nuggets to hopefully alleviate my worries. I can't help but wonder if there's something wrong when the other beardy I see is running around and is incredibly attentive and curious.

 

[RaptorTheBeardie]

Yes, keep doing what you a doing, holding them helps them get used to you and their enviroment. Dont give him a bath as often, maybe once or twice a week untill he is eating and not sluggish. Unfortunately, i do not speak from personal expierience, just what i can gather from your post. If you could give ics of your viv i might be able to diagnose it further. Also, how old is he? All this info would help, and if the basking spot is only a few degress too high or is too close to his post, he might shy away from it. That i have had expierience with. Unfortunately, i do not know what the yellow in the urate means. Do a little research online about it. Youd be surprised what you find. Thanks! :wink:

 

[tancients]

I'm moving the uvb bulb to inside his cage today, but can take an updated pic afterwards. Posted a pic in my enclosures topic in order to clean up any mistakes I made there. He can't be more than a month or two old, only 5.5 inches from nose to tail tip. Maybe about 2.5 or so of that is his body. Just got him on Friday, but have been worried about him since...

When I first got him, he was a bit more lively, and once held for a few minutes would become more active. Hasn't been like that at home though. I'm just glad he actually slept in his hide last night instead of curling up on his adored tree trunk.

 

[RaptorTheBeardie]

I read your enclosure and can say that you have a very good setup for him. And im glad he is eating, even if just a little. Keep doing the things i said before and he should be fine. If he wants to eat, hell eat. If he wants to poop, hell poop.

 

[Claudiusx]

Like you already said, Relocation stress. It's very hard to not get worried.

Just keep offering food and he will eventually eat.

Personally, I would keep the handling to a minimum (none if you can really) until the relocation stress settles. IME this helps them get to eating and feeling more safe faster.

I will assume you have a good uvb and everything right? (couldn't find the thread you were talking about where you posted it)

-Brandon

 

[AtlasStrike]

I would definitely take him to the vet and have a fecal test done. Both of them, actually, should have fecals, but stress can cause parasite loads to increase drastically and since he is already a bit lethargic, not eating much and so tiny, diagnosing a problem like that early could mean a lot.
Have you tried offering baby food in addition to his crickets and veggies?

 

[Claudiusx]

stress can cause parasite loads to increase drastically

Like you said, stress [relocation stress] can raise the levels of naturally occurring parasites in the body to higher levels. Getting a fecal done this early would be a waste, kind of like a false negative if you know what I mean?

A normal healthy dragon will be able to get the parasite counts back to a healthy level one the relocation stress settles, so getting a fecal done and getting harsh meds prescribed right now is not the best choice.

However it wouldn't hurt to get a fecal done on your other dragon, like was mentioned.

But really, you got your dragon Friday, all dragons go through relocation stress which is exactly what you are describing. After a week or so, they perk up and start eating again. It's noting to worry about, just sit back, let him get settled into the home, and enjoy him once you can stop worrying

-Brandon

 

[AtlasStrike]

Generally, I would agree, Brandon, but the OP mentioned that this beardie is smaller than all the others and has been lethargic since they got it. This, to me, points to an underlying problem. Also, different individuals deal with things differently. Little One's immune system may not be strong enough to fight off a large infestation of pinworms or hookworms, neither of which should be left untreated in any case. Panacur is actually a really gentle dewormer and has virtually no side effects, so if the fecal comes back positive for worms, panacur is a viable and safe option. Treating for coccidia is a different story. The medications for that are harsh, and coccidia is something that can exist in small amounts in the system of a healthy dragon, and if the counts for that are high, deworming and de-stressing should allow the immune system to bring them down on their own.

 

[Claudiusx]

I see where you are coming from but I stick to my original advice on waiting it out for a week and see how things progress from there. Does that mean that once the relocation stress settles that if there are bad counts of parasites that they will go down? No, not necessarily, but IME its better to treat after relocation stress has settled.

Not all dragons from the same clutch are the same size, some dragons adjust better to changes then others, but the fact is all dragons go through some form of relocation stress, and the simple fact that this dragon has already ate some crickets shows its doing better than some others going through relocation stress.

Lethargicness is also one of the symptoms of relocation stress.

Its happened hundreds and hundreds of times before, new owners get a new dragon and get freaked out because the first week the dragon acts like its going to die. Once the relocation stress settles after a week its a complete 360.

I think in this case, it's a bit different because there are two dragons and seeing one doing better than the other is causing unneeded worry.

I do agree fully with you, parasites/worms should not be left untreated, but it has always been the general recommendation of this board to wait even a month or so after getting your dragon to have a fecal done. (at least as far as i've been made aware.)

-Brandon

 

[tancients]

So out of ignorance on my part, the place we bought them from mentioned the guy liked mealworms more than crickets, so we grabbed a few...I guess thankfully they get completely ignored by both beardies.

Didn't get a fecal test done yet, but a vet did manage to get him to eat a few crickets by carefully popping his jaw and putting the food there, then having him close and chew it...Felt bad for the poor guy...

Outside of Saturday morning (The day after getting him) and the bit of force feeding done today, he's refused to eat anything. And even after eating, absolutely refused to go anywhere close to the basking light, sitting in areas where the temps were around 85 degrees.

Found him curved backwards in the little tree I put in the viv for him this morning, and moved slightly around to behind the hide and didn't respond or move or anything. After he refused to eat again this morning (Feeding is done by moving him to a smaller cage where the crickets can run wild), I waited until it was his lunch-time feeding and gave him a bath instead. Poor guy just sat there and responded to nothing at all...Replaced the water once since it was getting cooler, dipped my finger in it to create ripples but nothing....Was giving up and about to pick him up and put him back in his cage, when he started licking my finger underneath his little head.

Previously, I tried dripping water on his nose, but he didn't react at all, but after he got a few licks when it was placed right underneath his chin, he started licking at it, reaching up for it. I'd get a droplet on my finger and the little guy would stretch up and lick it up. I kept giving him something to drink this way until he stopped drinking it. At which point he started moving around and looking around and being a bit more active, I picked him up since the water was getting cooler again, and he quickly jumped out of my hand right back into the water. It looked like he was looking outside or at the cricket cage, so I showed him outside the window and the crickets and then placed him back inside his viv. Poor guy jumped backwards and fell about two inches, but landed upright on the west side of his hide. He's at least moving around a bit more and holding his head up himself which sounds like a huge improvement.

Pictures of the viv and the little guy before being hand dosed water:




This is where he was sitting all day, at the back:

This is his other spot where he just sits and doesn't move all day:

You can also see the waste he produced today (all white urate, black feces)

And here is how he is now:

He's holding his own head up now, and I guess he's basking, but it's only about 82-83 degrees where he is, so I'm not sure if that's enough to make sure the water on him goes away without getting too cold? I also avoided trying to feed so I could get him warmed back up sooner, but plan on feeding him some dusted crickets tonight.

I'm going to see a different vet tomorrow most likely if his perkiness just fades back away by then, since I'm out of ideas at this point...

 

[AtlasStrike]

Since he perked up after the water, I would continue bathing, and maybe offer him a cricket inside his viv. Just drop one in right in front of his face and see if he will go after it. That poop was mostly urate, usually even if they are eating very little, there is more dark brown log.

I am going to recommend the fecal again. It honestly can't hurt, and pinworms/hookworms could very well be causing the problem. If they find nothing unusual, then you know more than you did before anyway, and know you don't have to treat him for parasites any time in the near future.

Also, how are you measuring your temperatures? I feel like I asked you this already, but if you aren't using a probe thermometer (left on the basking spot for a minimum of 45 minutes) or a temp gun, your readings could be way off, which could explain "basking" in cooler areas.

If he does take the cricket in his viv, it might be worth ordering some phoenix worms, which can stay in a dish. Some beardies just don't like to eat outside their home. ::shrug::

 

[tancients]

Temps are being taken with a digital thermometer and a probe. It read at 105 on the main basking spot after letting it sit there an hour, though even when it was cooler, he never really used it. Should I be scooping up one of his droppings to bring in to the vet for the fecal test? I'd be worried if the little guy got parasites when he's barely 2 months old...

 

[AtlasStrike]

Yeah, try to get a fresh sample. If it sits under the lights and dries out, it won't be viable. Just scoop it up in a little baggie and keep it in the refrigerator until it is vet time. The ideal is to get it into the fridge as quickly as possible, most vets would prefer a sample less than 12 hours old.

Parasites can be transmitted from crickets, other beardies or licking contaminated surfaces. It would not be surprising if he has them. They go through a lot before getting to the pet shops.