Need Help!

[EllenD]

Uh, I'd be really, really careful with this..."Tail Rot" is just a general term for an infection, not any specific infection but just an infection in their tail that spreads and kills the tissue along it's way...It has absolutely nothing at all to do with Parasites, I don't have a clue what they are talking about with that, but yes, it very well could have resulted from a "tail whack" or a bite from an insect, or a bite from a sibling, or a burn, or ANYTHING else. It doesn't matter one bit HOW it happened, the end result is the same, an infection, usually bacterial, that keeps spreading and killing the tissue along it's way until it's stopped. And if it's not stopped the infection reaches the blood stream, they become septic, and they die...

I'm so sorry, but it doesn't sound like the vet that you saw has a clue what they're talking about. Seriously, I've dealt with dozens of cases of "Tail Rot" and "Mouth Rot", which is exactly the same situation, just in the mouth, a GENERAL infection that could have been caused by any number of things, but the bottom line is that their was either an open wound that got infected or a band of retained shed that cut off the circulation to the rest of the tail below it that caused an infection...The blood circulation to the tail is very poor, that's the reason the infections are so hard to treat, and it's also the reason that they continue to spread up the tail towards their body, regardless of the cause...

A pain med/anti-inflammatory is great to make him feel better, but honestly this vet doesn't have a clue...A fecal test because he's got a spreading infection in his tail? That's really bad, I'm so sorry, it's not uncommon, but it's really, really bad. This vet is totally clueless and you need to see someone else, because the only things that are going to stop that infection from spreading are #1) Possibly taking a culture to identify the exact microbe causing the infections and then the correct Antibiotic or Anti-Fungal medication (a culture from the tail, not a fecal sample), or most commonly an amputation...

I'm only forcing this issue with you because your Dragon currently has a spreading Tail Infection that is not going to get any better, only worse. And testing his poop for parasites and putting him on an Anti-parasitic medication has absolutely not one thing to do with the tail infection at all..That just sucks for you and your Dragon, but you need to get him to a different Reptile Vet ASAP, because again, this vet did not know what they were talking about and did absolutely nothing at all to help your Dragon, and will not be able to "save his tail" by checking for parasites in his fecal matter, lol, do you see how ridiculous that sounds????

 

[CheyenneD]

They are checking for parasites because right before I took him he pooped red and hadn't eaten anything that would cause that. The x-rays showed an injury to the cartilage from the side of his tail. I am glad she's giving it a couple of days to see if it can be corrected as this is not what most consider tail rot. Yes, it looks a lot like it, but it's not the same. His tail has been marked to monitor it. If we cannot find the root cause or if it worsens, it'll be removed by the end of the week. I've had BD's in the past so I'm not completely dumb about it. My husband is at home monitoring him every second. If it can be saved then I'll give them a couple of days to try. If not, then it'll come off. I personally am glad she wanted to at least try before cutting it. If it goes any further at all it's gone. If you saw the x-rays you'd understand what I mean about it not being typical tail rot. There isn't any constriction marks, bite marks, cuts, etc.... Something has twisted the cartilage in his tail.

 

[EllenD]

I didn't mean you were "dumb" about it, but again, an injury to any of the cartiledge, tendons, ligaments, bone, etc. internally in the tail again has nothing at all to do with the spreading infection. That's the point I'm trying to make, it's not at all different...It's 2 different issues, most likely they were caused by the same even or injury, but 2 entirely different issues. The infection is in the tissue surround the internal structures in his tail, and underlying orthopedic injuries have no baring on the infection or spreading necrosis...Not my Dragon, obviously, and not trying to anger you, but I'd be extremely careful, and yes, that the longest I'd give it. And the parasite thing you connected to the tail infection, I had no idea he had a separate issue, I thought the vet was doing a fecal because of the tail rot, which obviously makes no sense at all, lol...Again, I never thought you were "dumb", but again, what this vet told you regarding the internal injury that was seen on the x-ray has nothing to do with whether or not he has a spreading, necrotic tissue infection. Just watch it closely and stay on top of it, I guess because I've seen a lot of reptiles in general get very, very sick from sepsis involving the tail, the mouth, retained shed, shed that was pulled off, etc. I just don't want that to happen to your guy, or any Dragon, it's a horribly painful thing for them to go through once that happens...

 

[CheyenneD]

Lol no worries. I appreciate the help. Trust me, I won't let it go more than a couple of days without improvement.

 

[AHBD]

Cheyenne, I was a bit alarmed as well as soon as I read your vet's conclusion. That is almost 100% going to need surgery. Can you post 1-2 more good shots of the tail ? They generally will not be saved in that condition.

 

[CheyenneD]

When I get home I will.

Guys, she said it will probably have to be amputated. She's just trying a couple of things first.

 

[CheyenneD]

The black mark is where I marked it for monitoring.

 

[CheyenneD]

For comparison prior to him getting sick.

 

[AHBD]

Aw, that's a sweet pic with your little girl. Those pics show more of an MBD type of problem actually although the end looks dead for sure. The pics are dark so I can't really see the tail color though. I had a dragon years ago that had a wavy tail, not that much though. What type of uvb bulb are you using and how old is it ? Do you give her calcium powder ? Was there any chance of trauma to the tail ?

 

[CheyenneD]

Thanks. That's my granddaughter. He's a rescue so not sure what he had before a few days ago. I'm giving him his gut loaded crickets, dusting his food, and he has a 10.0 uvb.

 

[CheyenneD]

 

[EllenD]

First of all, thanks AHBD for backing me up so I don't sound like I'm totally crazy here, but year, what this vet said/did, regardless of what's going on with the tail makes no sense and is very alarming...
he
The new photos you just posted in much better light show a couple of issues that weren't visible in the first photos that were much darker...There definitely was some kind of injury/accident/trauma to his tail at some point, as at least the last inch of his tail is already dead, that's not in-question. And the dead tissue at the end happened because of either an infection or a total loss of blood to that part of the tail. The problem I'm seeing now, and AHBD can give his opinion after looking at the much brighter, better photos is that the color of his tail up to that line, a bit above that line is just as dark as the dead portion, but it's not yet shriveled like the dead portion...

The Vet did do an x-ray that showed old, internal orthopedic trauma to the underlying tissue/cartilage, which could account for the "kinks" or "waves" in the tail, but it does not at all account for the dark, surrounding tissue...And I totally agree with AHBD about the waves/kinks in his tail, they actually do look very much like he is suffering from a Calcium Deficiency/MBD, or he was at one time anyway, though that looks active to me...That too has nothing to do with the old injury to the underlying cartilage, 2 different issues...

Did the vet send you a copy of his x-ray? For future reference, if you didn't get a copy of his chart/all test results/digital copy of all imaging tests emailed to you, always make sure that you request all of these before you leave the office, it's your right as his owner to have them, obviously it's important to keep all his past medical records, and if you need to take him to an actual Reptile Specialist/Certified Reptile Vet, or any other vet for that matter, you'll have his entire history...just an FYI...

The reason I'm asking about the x-ray is that I'm wondering if this vet said anything to you about his bone density in-general? There are 2 ways to diagnose MBD, an x-ray and specific blood work, although it's usually very easy to see on an x-ray right away. i'm just wondering if this vet said anything to you about his bone-density in-general at all (especially since he's a rescue), or if he just looked at the old tail injury...The other thing that can sometimes be seen on a plain-film x-ray the actual infection, both in the soft-tissue of the tail, the hard tissues like cartilage/bone, and in joint spaces. Did he mention anything about that? I forgot to ask you that yesterday...

 

[CheyenneD]

She is going to send me his x-ray on a disc. She is a certified reptile specialist. As for the MBD, she said there isn't an infection seen on the film's. Yes, we agreed the tip of the tail is going to have to come off, but first we need to figure out how far up it has to go. She's supposed to call me today.

 

[lizardmom25]

MBD isn't an infection. It's a loss of bone due to calcium or D3 deficiency. The best comparison I can make is osteoporosis in humans. It isn't infectious but is due to poor husbandry, and with him being a rescure we have no idea what the husbandry was up until this point. I would make sure he was under 10. t5 HO linear florescent light from a reputable brand and getting daily calcium.

 

[CheyenneD]

I know it's not an infection. I was just telling her no infection was seen in x-ray.

Since I got him he has all of the correct lighting including the 10.0. He is getting calcium on his food and I have gut loaded his crickets.

Is there anything else you can think of to add to his diet or terrarium that would be beneficial?