Need Advice | possible neurological issue?

[tigerly]

Hey there!
So, we have a lot of beardies.
Earlier this year - March, seven months back - we got our firsts ones in a Melbourne (Australia) exhibition. I won’t name names, but the people we got a couple from were very dodgy. In total, we walked away with four. Two from “Breeder A”, and two from “Breeder B”.

We immediately noticed one beardie, Mookaite (Breeder A), was off. She fell out of the bag (terrible mode of transport, might I add, for a 2 minute walk) with her arms curled underneath her. She “functioned” well enough, eating crickets and vegetables, and lived for a good few months to the estimated age of five months. We found her, appearing to be hemmorhaged, and she passed on.

All of the others had been excelling, including her assumed sister. We still have the three others. However, soon after Mookaite passed on, we questioned the Breeder who offered to give us another bearded dragon, Obsidian. We didn’t think much of it, she appeared healthy, a little fragile and tooth-pick-esque, but unlike Mookaite, she could walk and articulate herself.

Yet, after a week or so, she displayed the exact same symptoms. She was larger than Mookaite, around the same size of the three others at the time, but she never grew, and still never has. Occasionally she flips around in circles, her back legs practically don’t move, and her front legs are brittle. She still gets around, eats, drinks, but we worry about her - understandably!
Obsidian is currently in a large enclosure with a supposed Rankin, both no larger than my palm. The other three were moved into another enclosure out of fear that they could push her around. Obsidian is now around the size of the head of the other Breeder A dragon.

I’m not sure what this is - we don’t have a reptile vet nearby, and the Breeder has been ignoring us.

Information;
*Disclaimer, these brands are Australian.
Exoterra UVB light (strength is relatively high)
75-100 Watt Basking Light, ReptileOne
Feeding them Woodies, small to medium size
Vegetables dusted with ReptileOne calcium powder
Feeding Squash, Carrot, Pumpkin, Cucumber, Cos Lettuce

Hope this is sufficient, if I can provide anything, please let me know. Thank you so much!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Sorry to hear you have had some trouble with a couple of dragons now.
Since you are in Australia, I hesitate to suggest that the issues could be due to Adenovirus.
There are cases over there but not nearly like here in the US.
They are from the same breeder, correct? I am wondering if there is any inbreeding going
on?
Which Exoterra UVB light are you using, is it the Reptiglo 10 T8 tube bulb? Have you had
anyone test the UVB levels on it?
Are all 4 of them housed separately?
How often do you dust with calcium, daily, or at least 4-5 times per week?
What are the temperatures in the tank?

If you can, go ahead & post some pictures of the tank setup, along with your dragon, too
just so we can see the physical condition of her.
I'm sorry that you lost your previous little one, that is never easy at all.

Tracie

 

[tigerly]

@Drache613 (Not sure if this is how this works.)

Hey Tracie!
Thank you so much for the swift response. I really appreciate your reply!
Adenovirus sounds like a somewhat likely candidate, however, her lifespan seems to say otherwise. And, of course, location. If anything at all, I've noticed she's extremely aware of her surroundings. The others seem to be in a haze in comparison, whereas she looks around at things constantly.
Both Mookaite and Obsidian are assumedly from the same breeder, however, it seems as if Opal (one of the healthy, larger dragons) is as well, who is perfectly fine. I don't doubt inbreeding could be the issue.
The.. company? that sold us the dragons in question, or "Breeder A", has recently shut down seemingly due to controversy or misconduct. It was all pretty quiet, so I don't have too much information on it.

I believe that's the one, Reptiglo 10, but I can look further into it if you'd prefer the specifics! We haven't had anyone test the levels.
All of the dragons started off in the same enclosure, same UVB, same bulb. Currently, we have three enclosures. One of them is for the babies, Obsidian and the Rankin (Pebble), another is for the juveniles (there are four, counting another that was purchased at a later date) and a last one for a beardie we rescued recently.
Hope this makes sense!
We dust the vegetables and the woodies daily, however, they tend to avoid the woodies dusted with calcium.
For this reason, we try to dust lightly.
I'm not exactly sure of the temperatures in the tanks. We keep the UV lights on for around 7 hours, and the bulbs stay on 24 hours during the winter. Now that it's summer, we've been taking them outside to get some air and some sunlight.
Please suggest anything if something here seems wrong!

Here are a few photos! I hope they're alright. Sorry about the potato quality and the reflections. Very glare-y today.
https://i.imgur.com/aKpmZA9.jpg

Here's Obsidian, placed decievingly close to the vegetables. She seems to enjoy looking at them.
https://i.imgur.com/bfB6m8j.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/UcS5f6A.jpg

Thank you again. Losing Mookaite was tough, but I don't want to lose another not knowing what's wrong. They're very lovable little critters and I'm very appreciative of you moderators and other dedicated owners on this forum.

 

[CooperDragon]

I suggest discontinuing use of the red bulb. That may be causing things to look distorted and causing odd behavior/lethargy. The idea is to replicate bright sunlight so I'd check Bunnings (or similar) for a nice bright halogen bulb (PAR38 puts out a nice wide beam) to use for basking. They are dimmable so you can fine tune the output as needed but I'd try to get the temps as close as possible by adjusting the wattage or height first and go from there. Perhaps a bright light next to the UVB light will help things a bit.

 

[tigerly]

Thank you!
That makes sense. My reasoning is that if it effects/has not affected the others, it wouldn't affect Obsidian, but it's fair that it would be specific to the individual dragon.
We'll definitely look into it. A dimmable bulb sounds fantastic.
Although not visible in the image, there's also the large UV lamp right next to the basking light. Unsure if that would help with the replication of brightness.
Thank you again for your advice, I'll have to keep an eye out for the halogen bulb.

 

[CooperDragon]

Having a good UVB light right next to the basking bulb is ideal so the most intense UVB is emitted along with the brightest light and warmest temps. Again, just as is the case with natural sunlight. There are so many different brands, types, and wattages of UVB lights though they need to be treated on a case by case and set at an appropriate height for their output. It's best to check output with a Solarmeter but several of the bulbs have been tested independently with some results made available so it's a bit easier to approximate distances with some accuracy.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Great, thanks for checking the brand. The Reptiglo 10 is an ok bulb, but by the test results here
in the US, don't emit the greatest UVB levels. Maybe you could look for the Arcadia D3 12% or the
14% tube bulb, it would emit much better.
I agree, the red light greatly affects the color spectrum for them, so do try to find a nice bright
white basking light. The Halogens are terrific & really increase the overall brightness when placed
directly beside a tube bulb, etc in their tank.
Taking them outside for sun is always helpful.
It may be more related to a calcium issue perhaps than with Adeno since it isn't all that common
over there. Some dragons have more trouble with low calcium than others. It may be dependent
on the calcium reserves that were laid down by the mother which affected only some of the eggs
but not all of them.
You could look for the Vetark or Troy liquid calcium there in Australia, if they don't like to eat any
powdered insects. LOL
How is he doing today?

Tracie