Mystery case of sickness

[nortyblonde1]

Hi

I have a 3 year old beardie that has always been a picky eater.
He was given the wrong UVB light by the pet shop and developed MBD which is being treated by .1ml calcium syrup every day (before that he was on calcium powder but due to the wrong light being supplied by the pet store, this would have been ineffective). He has been on the calcium for 3 months now and has a much more healthier stance and is growing much stronger.


My beardie eats very little and can't keep his food down. For the past 3 months I have been at the vet's weekly.
He has had two x-rays, 2 courses of antibiotics (one course with 5 injections and another with 8 every three days apart), worming and parasite treatment, a barium dye to check if there is any blockage or internal problems and a blood test for any other problems as well as a mouth swab and now he is on Metoclopramide (a muscle relaxant to help pass food through). All came out normal.
The vet is absolutely lost for what is causing his problems.
He is not gaining weight. he wants to eat, but when he does, it stays sitting in his throat. I have processed his food so it is not in big pieces, I have tried baby food, live food and a variety of food. Its not a problem of just being a picky eater, the problem is, he can't keep it down. He eats and then 20 minutes later he is thrashing his head around vomiting it up again with an excess of saliva. I bath him daily but due to not eating much, he also does not poop much (but will do every time he has a bath). He likes to drink in the bath but can 'overdrink' and again, goes completely pale but with a deep black beard and thrashes his head around spitting out the water/saliva mix.
He sits on my shoulder and I can hear noises in his breathing, which is very laboured. he also gapes a lot.
I have researched everything I can in the past 3 months (and then some) and it sounds like a respiratory infection BUT the vet says its not. She has also given 2 courses of antibiotics by injection, so if it was an infection like this, then they should have helped.
She has put his symptoms on a vet forum (not open to the public) but still no clues as to what is wrong.
I know someone will ask what is his enclosure like and I assure sure, everything is right. Lights, temps, humidity, newspaper, cleaned out with bleach solution and he enjoys being out of his enclosure wrapped in my scarf on my shoulder. The vet says everything is right - but we still don't know what's wrong with him.
Living in NZ, we don't have many reptile vets, and she is the only one in our city (although she is doing everything possible to ask others advice overseas) so I can't get another opinion even if I wanted to. Reptiles are very rare where I am, so its not something vets see all that often.
If anyone has any help as to what may be causing this, I would greatly appreciate you input!
When he is not gaping and vomiting, he is a very happy dragon and loves being with me. He can be quite active running around in his enclosure. But after spending $1000 at the vet and not getting any progress, I feel like its almost mean to keep him alive if he can't eat properly and is just going to 'waste' away starving to death. I'm really conflicted in what I should do and I want to try everything possible first before I make that decision.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am sorry to hear your dragon isn't doing well!
I am sure New Zealand has few reptile vets in your area.
Which UVB light are you using now, which brand & is it a tube bulb or a compact/coil light?
What are the temperatures in his tank, do you use a digital probe or a temp gun?
What is his weight?
Which antibiotics has he been given, do you know the names?
Have you been giving probiotics to help soothe his tummy since he has been on medications?
Do you have a copy of the blood test I could see?
Has he been tested for Adeno virus?
The x-rays don't reveal any respiratory issues?
When using bleach, be very careful to thoroughly rinse the items off as sometimes any residue left behind can cause fumes. Maybe try novalsan instead or vinegar/water mix for a safer cleaning solution.

Tracie

 

[nortyblonde1]

Hi
Thanks for the reply.
The UVB light is a Reptile One 10 18w tube.
I have two temperature testers. One is the Reptile One brand that can measure the cooler area and the hotter area and has stayed in the tank since I've brought it. I brought another reader that measures temperature and humidity that is just on a little stand in the tank. Both readers say the same so 80-90 in the cooler area and 100-105 in the hotter area. Humidity ranges between 25-45 depending on weather. I don't spray the tank ever but prefer to bath him.

I have the Reptile One 50w fan heater for his basking spot (which he doesn't sit under often).
He prefers the ceramic heat lamp to sit under which I keep on day and night. No light just warmth. He usually gets outside in the natural sun about 3-4 times a week for half an hour or so, its just too cold and windy here to keep him out for hours.


I don't know the names of the antibiotics but I assume I could find out all his results and names from the Vet. She did not mention probiotics so he hasn't had anything like that.
Her next suggestion was that it could be an Adeno virus and they found no respiratory problems with both x-rays he had.
It's not a case of him not wanting to eat, its that he can't keep it down when he does. I only feed him in the morning or day (not in the evening before I turn his lighting off) and he poops every day but very little so he's not getting compacted. It's also the same with water, he gets very thirsty and drinks a bit then spits it all back up. If I shine a torch into his mouth when he gapes and struggles to breath, I can see the food or water sitting in his bearded area with excess saliva. Either he holds his head in an upright position and slowly it goes down (with lots of gasping and laboured breathing) or he vomits it back up. When he does this, he goes extremely pale and his beard is very, very black, so he's clearly uncomfortable. He's not aggressive in any way and I'm probably reading too much into it but comes up to the glass looking at me like he wants help!
I read on the forum how to clean with bleach on here (may have been from you?) and I have only done it the once with bleach after he wasn't getting any better, generally I use a damp rag to clean the glass.
The reptile vet only works one day a week so will have to wait until I see her next to get the information about results. The blood tests showed everything was normal apparently but want to know if I can do something in the meantime.
Thanks
Sarah

 

[Drache613]

Hello Sarah,

I am sorry, I am not familiar with the Reptile One as far as the UVB readings. Do you know if the light was made in China?
Are you able to get the Arcadia D3 12% brand in New Zealand? That would be my recommendation as the Reptile One may not be emitting good quality UVB emissions.
I would lower the cooler end temperatures to a range of 78-82 or so, with the basking temperatures of a 95-110 range. The basking light is a bright white light, correct? The natural sunshine is great for him when you can get him outside.
The humidity is fine though for him in the tank.
How long has he been having trouble for now?
The Adeno virus causes a lot of different issues, including calcium issues, liver problems, respiratory trouble.
Poor guy, it sounds like he does have a hard time with his eating right now. It appears he is having trouble with digesting though for some reason.
Ok, the bleach cleaning sounds ok then.
Do you happen to have a copy of the blood tests?

Thanks.
Tracie

 

[nortyblonde1]

Hi

Reptile One is an Australian brand. They make loads of lighting, rocks, heating, tanks, etc for fish and reptiles and are a good brand. there bulbs come in UBV readings of 2, 5 and 10, so 10 is the highest emitting tube. I don't think we can get the Acadia D3 brand here though.
The basking light is the bright white light in a small rounded fan based heating system. I have just brought an infrared bulb today that I will let him bask under as they are supposed to be great for recuperating animals including reptiles. I have asked and am waiting for an answer as to how long I should let him bask under it as I am not sure, so have not put it in his tank yet until I find out - so if anyone here knows, that would be good.
He was always a funny eater but being my first dragon, I didn't know anything was wrong. The tank I had was a display one, and the store told me to change his UVB light every year (have since found out 6 months is the standard). I then received the wrong UVB bulb from another pet store; they gave me an aqua one - meaning no UVB but as my partner put it in, I didn't notice at all until he was getting worse and worse and I checked everything in his tank from scratch. So possibly, being a display tank and not changing it for a whole year and then receiving the wrong bulb, he could have had very little UVB for as long as a year, maybe even longer.
I ran into a woman who rehabilitates reptiles at our local zoo and she said some reptiles get a 'floppy jaw' from MBD but she wasn't sure if beardies got that. It could explain the trouble with swallowing food rather than a digestive problem, but still wouldn't explain the gooey excess saliva he seems to get.
It could be a time thing perhaps, in just continuing on with the calcium and waiting until he gets stronger? He has been on calcium for almost 3 months and I have noticed a change in his stance. He seems to sit more upright and higher in the legs than previously, so could be just a long process to full recovery?
He's not losing weight, but is not putting any on either. (Will get his weight from the vet as my scales at home are broken).

Made an appointment at the vets for next Thursday (a week away) so will update any info I get from them.
Thanks

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is too bad, it is hard when they don't have the proper lighting.
They can get rubber jaw when they have metabolic bone disease. Drooling excessively can sometimes be a sign/symptoms of health issues too. Does he drool a lot or just sometimes? Metabolic bone disease can cause a myriad of other issues too.
I am happy to hear that he seems to be improving a little bit with some calcium supplementation.
The Reptile One brand is well known, but I just haven't seen any UVB meter readings on them.
I think you should be able to find the Reptisun 10 tube bulb in that region, I would try to check on finding that particular brand.
It will take awhile for recovery but hopefully you have stopped it in time before it got any worse.

Keep us posted on him.
Tracie

 

[nortyblonde1]

Hi Tracie

The vet is sending me all the info from her files later on today, but she suggested I upload this video too, to show you what he is doing after eating and after excessive drinking.
You will see why I am worried.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s641EcG6hxk&feature=youtu.be

She is also sending all the info to another zoo vet who wants to review the case.
Thanks!
sarah

 

[nortyblonde1]

Here's the vet notes:


Date: 9 JAN 14 10:10
Exam - Breathing laboured, v Thin bcs 1/5, does not have strength to hold his body up for extended period, oral exam ok but mucousy saliva build up in back of throat, rostral tip of mouth held slightly open and tongue pokes out, is a male
weight = 220g
Plan - xray and fecal to begin, MBD is a possibility

Fecal (did enema) large numbers of oxyurid eggs (pinworm) FEC 4000/g

Xray - possible calcification of soft tissues and lungs look like may have alveolar pattern???

Will get VIN 2nd opinionIn the mean time worm - 0.06ml fenbendazole oral daily for 3 days, repeat in 10 days and then rpt fecal
Start broad spectrum AB's - cefazolin ev 3 days IM 5 doses
Drugs Dispensed:
5 x Panacur 100 1l
1 x Cephazolin 1g Vial


Date: 13 FEB 14 09:30
231g - weight up
Appetite was good but has gone down again since finished ABs
Was much more active, pooing more and now tapered off
Has been getting his Ca daily, has had 3 x worming txs
Posture is better than was
Is now gaping more again, quieter, appetite down, resp effort increased
Dx = resp dz not fully treated - course of Abs too short, wrong AB? Such a good response previously worth trying a longer course
Start cefazolin again ev 3 days x 8 injections, R leg today (remember iodine swab), alternate between HLs
Drugs Dispensed:
1 x Cephazolin 1g Vial


Date: 20 FEB 14 10:00
Notes: 225 grams - further weight loss

Given injection AB into L leg
Eating waxworms ok, As soon as eats baby food, whole body going white, beard goes black, gasping throws head around, owner thinks has trouble swallowing but does work eventually
Seems hungry but is hard for him to swallow
Is not regurgitating
Is passing F but they are small
Admit to GA and check throat
Given alfaxan 0.22ml IV examined mouth fully
Small amount of blood on cotton tip - possibly from trauma of mucosa?
Glottis looks ok and lots of mucousy saliva in throat
Looks like more GI than resp


Date: 6 MAR 14 10:00
Notes: bearded dragon inj SR
223g - more weight loss
Given injection into R leg
Discussed case on VIN, no one sees anythinig significant on xray
Raised possibility of adenovirus? Latent and flaring with stress/illness? Cauding neuro issues ie. gut motility.
Trial metoclop sid 7 days to see if helps

Drugs Dispensed:
1 x Metoclopramide Amps 10mg 10x2ml
1 x Calcium Syrup 250ml

I have x-ray pics but not sure how to post them on here??

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Oh my, I agree with the Metabolic bone disease.
Please try to find the Reptisun 10 tube bulb or the Arcadia D3 12% tube, either one. The Reptile One is not emitting enough UVB.
He is having seizures which are very serious. His beard is very black which means he is distressed & in some pain.
If he has any soft tissue calcification it could be due to poor absorption of calcium.
He has the heavy load of pinworms due to stress. With heavy doses of worms/parasites, it can cause GI tract issues & digestion problems.
It could be Adeno, but I think at the moment it is going to be metabolic bone related. The spine looks a bit hunched. It could be from the bone issues as well as the episodes also.
Please keep us posted on him.
He is very thin also & needs to get some weight onto him.
Also, I am seeing some swelling on his right wrist/hand area. How long has that looked like that? Have you had a blood test done? It could also be gout, as well, if the swelling is this apparent.
I am so sorry he is having so much trouble right now.

Tracie

 

[nortyblonde1]

Hi

yes, he's very underweight, but can't keep anything down!
The shaking like that ONLY happens when he has eaten and will stop once he has the food out of his mouth. He eats but won't swallow it. So after 10-15 minutes (I can see it sitting in the bottom of his mouth) he shakes like that to get it all out and then he is fine again for the next 12 or so hours until he eats again.
I think the camera angle gave a weird swollen look to his leg, he hasn't had any problems with it.
He has been treated with 3 doses 10 days apart for the pinworm.
I can't find the Reptisun 10 tube bulb or the Arcadia D3 12% tube anywhere for sale in NZ and Amazon won't ship to NZ either!
I will keep looking though. Maybe can get someone to ship it for me if I order it overseas.
He is definitely not a happy guy - but I had no clue the reptile one was not a good source of UVB and given that is what caused everything in the meantime, I'm a bit annoyed that we don't stock more brands here in NZ! I also have a mesh screen set up (again a complete set up with stand, built in lights, heat, etc from the pet store) and have discovered that this also blocks a lot of the UVB.
My sister lives in Australia, I will see what I can ship there and get her to send it over - will just take a few more weeks and I want to sort this out asap.
Thank you for your help! Will definitely keep you updated.
Sarah

(Just found a site with the Acardia D3 but looks like it may be 5%, will see what they can ship in!)

 

[nortyblonde1]

Ok have found a store up north that will order one in for me. The Arcardia D3 12%, they only had 7%.
They are saying its a better brand and can last for 1 year. Is this information correct? Want to get it right this time!!
Sarah

 

[Mustashio]

Just saw your video of your sick little guy. Could you give an update for me? My dragon is 2yo and he is doing the same head shaking and black bearding thing, only he has been vomiting up black syrupy emesis with chunks of horn worm (that he hasn't been offered in over 2wk) in the emesis. He has been to the vet 3 times in the last 2m and his fecal is negative. They think possible kidney issues as well, but then seems to get better from one thing and presents with other issues. Keeps throwing us curve balls. Had pus and swelling in one extremity which we thought was fluid retention, but turned out to be an injury and leg was full of pus. Started antibiotics and leg got better, but now he's vomiting.

Anyway, if you could post an update that would be wonderful. I'd be interested in seeing what the final diagnosis was for your little guy.

 

[Mustashio]

Here is a link to my thread...

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=204677

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is great you found a place to order an Arcadia D3 12%, the tube bulb. Did you get it ordered?
The UVB emissions can last for up to a year, but I usually recommend changing them out within a 6-8 month period of time to ensure that the exposure stays optimal.
Of course, placing the bulb 6-8 inches from him with no screen or plastic in between is helpful also.

How is he doing today, any improvements?

Tracie

 

[nortyblonde1]

Hi
So my vet has moved away and I now have a referral to our vet university bas well as our local zoo so I am waiting on their responses. The university is over 2 hours away so a bit of a drive for me.
I got the reptisun 10 tube and he has been a bit better with that in. Also put it below the mesh.
Basically his appetite is pretty much next to nothing so the vomiting has ceased but hard to know if that's because he's getting better or because he eats so little.
Like you mastashio, I syringe feed him vegetable juice as he won't eat cut up vegetables so at least he gets all the nutrients that way, however he is ok on the live food, although still not a big eater at all. My guy is tiny compared to yours!
Will keep you posted, as I say had the vet and now the veterinarian school and our local zoo all looking into his case, so hoping to find an answer soon.