Mounting light fixtures & safe wiring

[whispersinmyhead]

Hi all,

Well I am frustrated with my glass viv because it has too much ventilation and is hard to keep the temps even up here in Canada. Cold winter and hot summers. So I am planning a wooden viv design based on the crossfire instructions.

My first problem is that I am having a very hard time finding a 36" t8 fixture and Reptisun 10.0 is now t8 not t12. Can I sue a t12 fixture or just try and order a t8 fixture? Should I use a 24" instead?

The second problem is the heat fixture. I see many people use a standard lamp holder like the ones you used to find in closets (the round ones that sometimes have a pull string). I like this idea because it is lower profile and easy to fit in (and hide) side the cage. I will get the porcelain version not the plastic. I am worried about fire and the heat warping the plywood. Am I being paranoid? The other option is the outdoor spot light fixture. All these fixtures seem to require those metal round boxes but that gets pretty bulky but I guess it is safer. I am a little worried about the electrical as I do not want any fires. Any thoughts/advise is most appreciated. Thank you.

 

[michigan101]

I had the same problem with the UVB bulb. I have a 36" reptisun t12 and a 36" ballast for a t8. I does fit with some gentle coaxing. You have to be firm and gentle but it CAN be done. The only issue I ran into when trying to mount the fixture, I wasnt able to use the screws (since the bulb was so big) I set my viv on its back and used liquid nails and heavy duty mounting tape. The mounting tape held it in place while the glue dried, and liquid nails will keep it in place (once dry)

I also used the outdoor spotlight for just under $8. It sits pretty flush with the ceiling. It doesnt have a metal box or anything, just a positive/negative wire with the ground wire (not used). The instructions where very easy, got both the fixtures lit up on the first try. (not bad since ive never tried to splice wires before). It is also nice to have the ability to point the light or swivel to achieve the proper basking temp.You can also use high wattage bulbs without worry of melting anything plus they are weather proof, thats just great for your piece of mind.

enjoy making the enclosure, i sure did!

edit: not sure if I have the T8 T12 sizes mixed up, but lets just say Its a BIGGER than usual bulb with your run of the mill light fixture

 

[whispersinmyhead]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I think I will do without the metal box so I can keep the heat light a little higher. That should help conceal it and create a larger hot zone. The ability to aim the light is worth going to the large outdoor spotlight type fixture.

In regards to the t12 fixture dilema. T12 is the bigger bulb and it is easy to fInd fixtures at hardware stores. T8 are smaller in diameter. Reptisun Are switching over to the smaller t8 bulb in the stores near me and I can't seem to find t8 fixtures. I have a 24" on but I don't know if it is big enough for a 4' cage. I would like a 36" fixture but I can't find a t8 fixture. I know the t8 will fit in the t12 fixture but is it ok or should I hold out for a proper t8 fixture?

Thanks michigan101 for your input. You actually have the fixture I can't seem to find here. I tried home depot but only stock t12.

 

[michigan101]

Thanks for clearing up the sizes for me, I do have a T8 fixture and a T12 bulb. I guess I got the fixture from lowes. I had gone back and forth between homedeopt and lowes for the project guess i got em mixed up

http://www.lowes.com/pd_74907-1390-G9336D-T8-WHI_4294896174_4294937087_?productId=1270367&Ns=p_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_quantity_sold|1&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl_Fluorescent%2BLighting%2BAccessories_4294896174_4294937087_%3FNs%3Dp_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr%7C0%7C%7Cp_product_quantity_sold%7C1

thats the fixture I got, you still have to "splice" an extension cord for it.

 

[Dementeddogz]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I think I will do without the metal box so I can keep the heat light a little higher. That should help conceal it and create a larger hot zone. The ability to aim the light is worth going to the large outdoor spotlight type fixture.

In regards to the t12 fixture dilema. T12 is the bigger bulb and it is easy to fInd fixtures at hardware stores. T8 are smaller in diameter. Reptisun Are switching over to the smaller t8 bulb in the stores near me and I can't seem to find t8 fixtures. I have a 24" on but I don't know if it is big enough for a 4' cage. I would like a 36" fixture but I can't find a t8 fixture. I know the t8 will fit in the t12 fixture but is it ok or should I hold out for a proper t8 fixture?

Thanks michigan101 for your input. You actually have the fixture I can't seem to find here. I tried home depot but only stock t12.

If youre looking for a 36" inch fixture youll most likely have to order one. They are phasing out t12 fixtures (can still find 4' t12 in stores) and changing to t5/t10/t8 (varying on size of fixture) most of your 36" fixtures youll find at large stores like homedepot will be t5.


What size tank are you making? 4x2x2?

 

[whispersinmyhead]

The size is going to be 4x2x2 give or take. The I saw mostly t12 fixtures at my home depot here in Oshawa Ontario. I am going to ask a smaller local hardware store about ordering. Thanks for the replies.

 

[BadCon]

Whatever fixture you use, make sure it uses an electronic ballast. Much more efficient, and it won't emit humming noises, which could disturb the animal. As for the t12/t8 issue...you can fit either bulb in each fixture, but note that if you use a t8 bulb in a t12 fixture, you'll be over-driving the bulb as T12's use a bit more power. It won't be much, but it will shorten the bulb life and increase the output...which could be slightly hazardous with a UV bulb...so plan accordingly. As for how much it will impact either of those variables...I couldn't tell you. I can say that you'll probably hit the 6 month replacement mark before the bulb burns out. It has to be an electronic t12 fixture though...a magnetic one will cause issues with the t8 bulb.

As for the heat light fixtures, I recommend the spotlight setups with the wiring box attached. The box makes wiring a breeze, and allows for some venting between the fixture and the wood of the viv. The fixtures will get HOT...and can cause issues with the wood if you aren't careful. Here is a quick pic of an old light setup I had...wasn't all that difficult to wire. I attached the wiring box to the viv with wood glue and a couple screws. The fixture itself then just screws into the wiring box. With these dual light fixtures you can wire them up independently...so I have some dimmers on some bulbs, and straight connections on others. The only issue with the spot light fixtures is how far down they hang down; you'll have to account for the 4" the fixture hangs down, and then the 3-4" below that the light bulb will hang down. This can make setups a bit harder if the viv isn't tall enough. I ended up making a removable light box on my viv. Made wiring easier, and gave me a bit of extra height.

This is a pretty old picture (long since abandoned MVB's), but it should give you an idea.

My setup now uses Reptisun 10.0 bulbs, 2x18" bulbs. I use a fixture that has an electronic ballast attached to loose end caps, so I can place the bulbs wherever I want. I just hung them off the top of the viv...allows me to adjust the height as necessary. No real good pictures of that, but here is the ballast I used - http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=2122

 

[FBradshaw]

First of all, I'm an electrician, and if you're worried about fires and the safety of your dragons make sure you use the metal boxes that come with the fixtures. Even the ceramic little pull string fixtures require the installation of a box behind it for the wire junctions. Not using these boxes gives nowhere for the heat to go from the fixture, making it more likely to melt the wiring and cause a short possibly starting a fire.

A T12 fixture will not hold a T8 bulb, and a T8 fixture will not hold a T12 bulb. Lowes or Home Depot, or any other decent hardware/home improvement store, should have a 36" T8 fixture. If not then you will have to order one, a quick google search will turn up plenty of options.

 

[whispersinmyhead]

Thanks for the responses!

I have been using an aquarium fixture that carries a 24" bulb that specifies it takes both t8 and t12 bulbs. I wanted to replace it with a 36" fixture from a hardware store but I have to find out if zoomed is going to be switching to t8 first. If they are staying with t12 then it is not a big deal right now and i can worry about ordering a fixture later if they switch to t8. Either way I want to make sure they are the correct fixture for the bulb. I was told it didn't matter if I was putting a t8 in a t12 fixture but I like to check here because I haven't been steered wrong yet. I think I will modify the crossfire design a bit and make room to install the metal boxes beneath the light fixture. I will just have to make room for a lighting box. I also don't want to be staring at a light bulb when I look in the cage so it will make it easier to hide! Thanks again everyone.

 

[BadCon]

A T12 fixture will not hold a T8 bulb, and a T8 fixture will not hold a T12 bulb. Lowes or Home Depot, or any other decent hardware/home improvement store, should have a 36" T8 fixture. If not then you will have to order one, a quick google search will turn up plenty of options.

Not that it's ideal, but a T8 and T12 bulb have the same pin-out arrangement, and will fit in each others fixtures. If you put a T12 bulb in a T8 fixture, you are stressing the ballast. If you put a T8 bulb in a T12 fixture, you are stressing the bulb. However, the bulbs will fit in either fixture and will even light up. I have 7 fixtures in my house that will work with either bulb...two of them even say right on the fixture that they accept T12 or T8 bulbs. Their ballast ratings are for T12 bulbs, so in the T8 situation they are slightly overpowering the bulb. This increases output at the expense of a little life...but they should easily last the 6 month replacement time of a UVB tube.

 

[whispersinmyhead]

Well my local hardware store said they can order a 36" t8 fixture for me but can't confirm price until Monday. Their 48" version was $30 and the 24" was $20 so it should be around those prices. Hopefully not too much for special orders.

I bought two heat fixtures today. I decided (after some debate) to get two standard porcilian lamp holders (like you would see in an unfinished basement). I wanted to be safe and get the metal boxes to mount the fixtures to. The spot light fixture was just too big and would hang down to far with the box behind it. I am on my way now. I also have the plastic runners for the sliding glad doors.

Now for wiring decisions... that will happen later on. I am wondering if I need a spot bulb or if a standard household bulb will be better in such a closed environment? Any experience or suggestions for the type of bulb in a 4x2x2 enclosure?

 

[BadCon]

Well my local hardware store said they can order a 36" t8 fixture for me but can't confirm price until Monday. Their 48" version was $30 and the 24" was $20 so it should be around those prices. Hopefully not too much for special orders.

I bought two heat fixtures today. I decided (after some debate) to get two standard porcilian lamp holders (like you would see in an unfinished basement). I wanted to be safe and get the metal boxes to mount the fixtures to. The spot light fixture was just too big and would hang down to far with the box behind it. I am on my way now. I also have the plastic runners for the sliding glad doors.

Now for wiring decisions... that will happen later on. I am wondering if I need a spot bulb or if a standard household bulb will be better in such a closed environment? Any experience or suggestions for the type of bulb in a 4x2x2 enclosure?

For a basking spot, you'll definately need a flood bulb. A standard household bulb just won't direct enough heat from that far away. I'd recommend a standard 65w incandescent flood bulb. Should be able to get the spot up to a decent temp...obviously you'll need to fine tune everything with a thermometer. A halogen flood bulb is also an option, but its been my experience that they simply put out too much heat unless they are really far away, so unless you get a really low power bulb, expect to need a dimmer with a halogen.

 

[whispersinmyhead]

Thanks BadCon. That makes sense. As for wiring I think I will wire each fixture independently and then plug each heat light into a dimmer and everything is on a timer of course.

Thanks for the help I just want this next setup to be a lot better than my current one. I am playing with his temps way too much. It is stable in the summer but the other 3/4 of the year it is all over the place. Thanks again.

I am going to get a wiring diagram done in the next day or two. I will post it for review when it is ready.

 

[whispersinmyhead]

Ok well still thinking through the wiring and I think I want one power cord coming out of the tank. Any body chime in if there is a safety issue with regards to the wiring.

I am going to have a 3 prong heavy duty extension cord coming into the tank. It will come into a junction box and then split off three ways from there. First wire out will be for the 36" t8 fixture and will have a switch for that to turn on and off. The second one will be fore the main basking fixture and will go through a dimmer switch first. Likewise for the second heat fixture which will have a ceramic heat emitter for winter time if needed. The heat fixtures will have metal (grounded) boxes behind them and the fixture is a standard porcelain lamp holder. The junction box and light switch/dimmer switch boxes will all be metal and all be grounded. As for the wiring inside the cage I think the standard stuff they use here in the walls should be sufficient. The porcelain lamp holders call for 90 degree copper wire I believe. I think that must mean I can't use pieces of extension cord.

I guess I have two questions about this...
1) what wiring is best to use, and to I need to run it through any protective covering.
1) what is going to stop the wire from being pulled out of a box if it were to be accidentally pulled? I doubt it would ever happen. I was planning on using little metal fasteners to mount the wire on the roof of it so it doesn't hang down.

Any feedback is welcomed once again. I haven't seen very many posts regarding all the wiring although it is a simple circuit I am sure I am not the only one a little nervous working with 110v. I have not issues with smaller stuff but the power of household is a little intimidating. Actually it is the only reason I didn't build my cage when Freddy outgrew his starter setup.

 

[whispersinmyhead]

Is this what I would need on a junction box etc. to secure the cables?